The Sonlife Broadcasting Network is the television and radio arm of Jimmy Swaggart Ministries. JSM is anti-Catholic. I recently started looking into a show called Frances & Friends, one of many shows broadcast on Sonlife by JSM. I watched a few podcasts of the show and found that Frances, affectionately referred to as “Sister” Frances, is Jimmy Swaggart’s wife.
The “friends” include guests such as Jim Nations, John Rosenstern, and Donnie Swaggart. They spend two hours a day talking about the blood of Christ, salvation, and the cross, but they have few kind words for Pope Francis, Catholic doctrine, and the “Roman Catholic Church.” It seems that the host and the “friends” have a few things in common: They love Jesus, they believe Jimmy Swaggart is amazing, and they believe the Catholic Church is outright satanic.
I also learned that one of the “friends” on the show, Jim Nations, was scheduled to give a talk at a hotel about twenty miles from where I live. Mr. Nations is a relatively new “friend” on the show. He was unknown to the Swaggarts until he called the show one day to share “how Freemasonry, Islam and the Roman Catholic Church [are] connected and were now working together toward a New World Order which is spoken of in Revelation Chapter 13 & 17” (jsm.org/jim-nations.html). He is now a regular on the show.
A lengthy church service
Intrigued as to what Mr. Nations had to say, I went to the Friday night presentation, which turned out to be a church service followed by a presentation. I had invited a couple friends to join me in case things went south and I needed someone to confirm that I was not causing trouble. It never hurts to have witnesses, especially when you are walking into hostile territory.
The three of us sat near the back of the room, which was populated by about seventy people, with no idea what to expect. We received more than we bargained for, since we were not expecting a full-blown (and lengthy) church service before Mr. Nations’ talk. None of the three of us had ever been to a Protestant church service, so we were ill-prepared for the extensive amount of singing involved. The first two songs lasted a total of thirty-five minutes.
We can also now say that we’ve witnessed the Protestant version of the laying on of hands. Those in need of healing were invited to come forward, and the leaders laid hands on those who wished to be healed of sickness, sin, and other problems in their lives.
Although there was very little prayer or Scripture discussion at that point, we did recognize a deep faith in the room. Many of the attendees seemed truly in love with Jesus Christ. They clapped their hands, raised their hands to heaven, and sang out. There is no question that their faith was sincere. The lyrics of the songs and the brief messages chanted by the local ministers were basic and in line with traditional Christian teachings. We wondered if we had simply stumbled into a gospel sing-along.
The music wrapped up with a couple of more songs after the “healing.” The clock showed we had surpassed the two-hour mark. But to my relief, the head pastor finally introduced the guest, Mr. Nations.
Part of the harvest
Mr. Nations’s presentation was sprinkled with biblical references as he touched on a few passages that seemed to support his views. However, he did not delve deeply into Scripture. Instead, he spoke in a general way about the Gospel of John and Paul’s letter to the Romans. Initially, there was nothing distasteful in the content of his message. But then, after a cursory comment about the importance of family, the promotion of JSM, and a few folksy stories about being a minister, he launched into the heart of his two-pronged message.
In his first prong, he compares Jimmy Swaggart Ministries to a farmer harvesting wheat. JSM is the farmer and we are the wheat, ripe for harvest. Likening Sonlife to a brand-new, state-of-the-art Gleaner combine, Mr. Nations explained that God told him (in a private revelation) that Sonlife, like a new combine, is the “best machine that money can buy.” He told the audience, “It’s the money that you give. . . . You are a very important part of this. We can’t do it without you. If you are prayin’ for us and givin’ us a little money, you are part of the harvest.”
Then, moving to the second prong, he asked if anyone had heard of the “new pope.” About a dozen of us raised our hands. Some of the people in the crowd shook their heads and said things like “He’s bad” and “Not good” along with groans and chuckles from others in the room. That’s when Mr. Nations began explaining how the “Roman Catholic Church” is the Occult, poised to destroy the world. “Don’t get me wrong, I love Catholics,” he said.
He told us about a vision “brother Swaggart” had many years ago in which there was a field of white, ready to be harvested, but an ominous black cloud was approaching (the satanic Catholic Church led by the “Black Pope”). Then he gave us the high points of his great conspiracy theory: The Jesuits invented the Freemasons as a fake Christian secret-society, in an effort to reverse the reformation and create a “One World Order.”
“I love Catholics”
Mr. Nations said it is all explained in the Bible but most clearly in Daniel, Romans, and Revelation. He can tell the end time is here because the Jesuits have always pushed others out ahead of them so they could remain in the shadows. But Mr. Nations said Pope Francis is different because he has “come out of the closet.” This means Pope Francis and the Roman Catholics are the ominous black clouds, rolling in to end the harvest.
Each time he said something particularly dishonest about Pope Francis or the Catholic Church, Mr. Nations would always follow it with, “Don’t get me wrong, I love Catholics.” Then he’d dive back into telling everyone how Catholics are Satan’s minions.
Mr. Nations kept on telling us the harvest is ready and there is no longer any time to argue with anyone. The JSM preachers are simply focused on driving the combines as the Black Pope and Rome slowly move in to end the harvest. He’d say, “I can prove it, too” with each new allegation against the Jesuits, Pope Francis, and the “Roman Church.” He planned to prove it with a PowerPoint presentation at 2 p.m. on Saturday if the Holy Spirit moved him to show it. Apparently, that was up in the air (no pun intended), so he had to pray about it and let the Spirit move him. It was all so important because, “The harvest is ready, but time is running out.”
Near the end of his talk he revisited the first prong of his message. He said, “Listen. This thing is lining up. It’s harvest time. We’ve got the best machine to do it on the planet. God’s gonna open the doors and it’s gonna reach around the globe. . . . Find somebody that is preachin’ the gospel, the truth, and support them. Let’s get this harvest done.”
As Mr. Nations laid out his conspiracy theory, the audience just sat there. The “message of the cross” was sidelined so Mr. Nations could place his message front and center. The feeling in the room was markedly different. The people who had just been signing joyful praise and worship were now hearing the manipulative criticism, division, intrigue, and conspiracy from the soapbox of JSM.
There is nothing hidden
As they began a closing prayer, we headed to the hotel lobby to set out pamphlets, books, and other information about the Catholic Faith. As people left, many were happy to take copies of “The Top 10 Questions Catholics Are Asked” and several other great explanations of the Faith.
It dawned on us that these people assumed we were also anti-Catholic. One man asked who we were with. We explained that we were Catholic and that Mr. Nations was not to be trusted regarding the things he said about the Church. He reached for my pamphlet, shaking his head and said, “I don’t agree with him either,” then headed to his car.
Another attendee who had overheard our conversation smiled and explained that her sister-in-law was Catholic, and Mr. Nations’s message didn’t sit right with her, either. We handed her information so she could learn more about her sister-in-law’s faith.
I held out a pamphlet to another attendee I’ll call Suzanne. I explained, “This pamphlet will help you learn what the Catholic Church actually teaches.” She smiled and nodded, asking, “You mean it exposes them?”
Me: “Well, it gives you some very basic information on the common questions about the Catholic faith.”
Suzanne: “You mean it exposes them, right?”
Me: “Ma’am, there is nothing hidden. Church teachings are free for everyone to see and read.”
Suzanne: “I don’t understand.”
Me: “I’m Catholic, ma’am. I’ve been Catholic all my life, and what these people are telling you is dishonest. This pamphlet will help you see that you are being misled.”
She walked out a little bewildered by our exchange, but she kept the pamphlet.
I had to be even more explicit with another attendee, who couldn’t seem to grasp the fact that I was not attending the event in order to learn how to follow Jimmy Swaggart. My conversation with her started fairly similarly to the first lady, but when I said, “I’m Catholic,” it seemed she heard something like, “I used to be Catholic.” She asked when I “got out.”
“No, you don’t understand, ma’am,” I said. “I’m still Catholic today. I go to Mass nearly every day. The pamphlet you are holding is a free and open explanation about some very basic facts about the Church, and I’m giving them to you because these people are deceiving you.”
She suddenly looked down at the pamphlet as though it was laced with anthrax and slowly handed it back to me. Her friend standing nearby, who had also accepted a pamphlet, followed suit. Then she looked at her husband who was holding the pamphlet and motioned for him to hand it back to me, but he shook his head and put it in his pocket.
Witness to Nations
I went back into the conference room to introduce myself to Mr. Nations. I saw him near the podium talking to a few people. As I approached, a couple that appeared to be husband and wife looked at me and quickly headed toward the door. The other person turned to look at me as if I was a ghost. It was Suzanne, the lady with whom I had spoken in the lobby. She had slipped back into the conference room through a side door to tell the local pastor that we were Catholic evangelists.
I extended my right hand and introduced myself to Mr. Nations. Although he shook my hand, he recoiled a little when I held out some of the materials I had been giving to people, including Catholic Answers’ Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth. The gal warned him not to take it, but I assured him it wouldn’t hurt him. He took them, saying he knew just where to put them, suggesting he was going to throw it all away.
I then asked him if he’d heard of Fabian Bruskewitz, but he didn’t recognize the name. I told him Fabian Bruskewitz had recently retired as bishop of the Catholic diocese of Lincoln and that the Vatican backed him when he said Freemasonry and Catholicism were incompatible. This fact didn’t seem to deter Mr. Nations from his belief that Catholicism and Freemasonry were basically one in the same.
I said I would love to discuss his theories with him, because I could help him find the truth instead of allowing him to live with the deception under which he currently existed. Unfortunately, he was not willing to discuss any of it with me and started making his way out of the conference room. He suggested that he had the proof to back up what he said. I expressed my willingness to see it, but he didn’t seem to have anything with him.
Mr. Nations seemed distracted and wandered toward the door. At that point someone behind me said, “Sir? What would you think if I came over to St. Cecilia’s and started handing things out to Catholics?”
Invitation to dialogue
I turned to see it was the minister of the local church that brought Mr. Nations to Nebraska. I could tell he was angry at me, but he wouldn’t make eye contact with me, either. I admitted I had no control over whether or not he handed things out in front of St. Cecilia’s, but I think I helped him see a key distinction. I explained that the Church to which I belong does not spread misinformation about his church, and my parish does not bring in speakers to spread lies about his church.
He attempted an excuse, saying that the content of Mr. Nations’s talk was Mr. Nations’s personal material and not necessarily the belief of the local congregation. I think he realized the weakness in his excuse before he even finished the sentence.
He turned away and continued to count the money the “faithful” had dropped in the collection box during “the give.” I told him I’d love to sit down with him to discuss his questions about the Catholic Faith. As I stepped toward him, the assistant pastor nearly tripped over a chair trying to get away from the discussion. He either anticipated a dispute or he knew the anti-Catholic sentiment of the guest speaker was very un-Christian.
I told the local minister that we lived in the same small town, so dialogue should be easy. I also assured him that if he asked me a question I couldn’t answer, I’d find the answer for him and provide him with the reliable basis for it. He said he didn’t have time because of his “flock.” I assured him that I’d work around his busy schedule in order to clear up his misunderstandings regarding the Catholic Church. Unfortunately, he was too busy counting the money to continue our discussion at that point, and no one else seemed interested in discussion. So we gathered the materials we had set out in the lobby and headed home.
I could not make the possible PowerPoint presentation that Mr. Nations may have shown on Saturday. We have a brood of kids and a busy home. My wife, Carmen, and I had committed to helping with some things at our parish. But my brief discussion with Mr. Nations the prior evening may have been enough to move him to hold back some of his allegations. The prospect that some Catholics might show up and poke holes in his conspiracy theory may have helped remind him of his love for Catholics. Maybe our attendance on Friday encouraged the local minister to ask him to back down from some of his conspiracy theories as well.
God’s ways, not my ways
Nevertheless, I still wanted to go to the 2 p.m. presentation. As Saturday morning progressed, it became more and more clear that I wasn’t going to be able to devote two to three hours to defending the Church that afternoon. As a consequence, I was in a foul mood by noon. But instead of another class with Mr. Nations, Carmen and I traveled four blocks to St. Cecilia’s to spend an hour with the Blessed Sacrament. The church was quiet and welcoming at 2 p.m. As we prayed in front of the Blessed Sacrament, my heart finally rested.
I believe in prayer, and I know that God’s ways are not my ways. It was during prayer that I was able to understand that God put three Catholics in the conference room the previous evening and that he put my wife and I together with him on Saturday. His thoughts are not my thoughts. It was simply my pride that was pushing me to show up at the PowerPoint and correct all of Mr. Nations’s errors with my arguments and facts—and ego. Our hour with the Blessed Sacrament was far more powerful than I would have been. Accepting God’s will for me was difficult and took some time, but doing so was liberating.
I called the local minister who sponsored Mr. Nations, but I had to leave him a voicemail. If he calls back, I’ll invite him out to lunch. I doubt he will call me back, but if he does, I hope he accepts. I’ll pray about that, too.
As apologists, we confronted dishonesty and humbly proposed the truth. But this foray reinforced the truth that without the sacraments and prayer—and in this case, fasting as well—many hardened hearts will remain cold. We can never forget that apologetics and evangelization are fueled by the sacraments and prayer.