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Our prayers and sorrow go out to the Holy Father Pope Francis and the Church he was tasked with shepherding. Please keep him in your prayers these next 9 days for the repose of his soul. Joe talks about the intricate process of what happens after a pope dies.
Transcript:
Joe:
Welcome back, To Shamless Popery. I’m Joe Heschmeyer and this morning, Easter Monday, Pope Francis died at the age of 88. Whether you’re a Catholic or not, whether you liked Pope Francis or not, I ask you to please pray for the repose of his soul. We are reminded in this Easter season that death is real, but it doesn’t get to have the final word. Now, many of you may be wondering, with the Pope dying, what does this mean for the church? What happens next? How do we determine who becomes the next Pope? Now before we get into all of the details of the conclave process is actually even more that must be attended to. The Catholic Church has a careful step-by-step process for what to do when a Pope dies, and I thought it might be helpful to walk through each of the major steps. After all, Benedict the 16th resigned years before he died, meaning that the last time the world witnessed the death of a Pope was some 20 years ago when St.
John Paul II died in April, 2005. Now it’s a rich and beautiful process. If you know what’s going on, parts of the process are actually quite ancient. Other parts are ever changing and even as newest last year, so while it’s been centuries since there have been any major overhauls to the process, some important aspects, things like the Pope’s coffin, what happens to his body when he dies? These changes were made by Pope Francis himself in 2024. So if you’re old enough to remember 2005, you’re going to recognize some things. Some things are going to look pretty different, so I wanted to walk through again each of the major steps from the beginning. Step one, confirm the death of the Pope. Now that first step has already happened, but you might’ve noticed that while Pope Francis died at 7 35 in the morning room time, that’s 1235 in the morning, for those of us living in the middle of the us, his death was not announced right away, and that’s because there are certain steps taken to ensure that the Pope is actually dead.
Now that is performed by what’s called the papal lingo. Now that role was performed by what’s called the Papal Cameron Lingo. That’s Cardinal Kevin Farrell, the Irish Cardinal who is bishop of Dallas, Texas from 2007 to 2017. Now, his role is normally administrative, but he is the one officially responsible for ensuring that the Pope is actually dead and he has some other important roles to play during this time. Now that that first step has occurred, we enter the second step. Step two, the sea is vacant. We are now in what’s formerly called the Vacancy of the Episodic Sea. You also are going to hear it called the Papal in Oreg or cte. All of those are just different ways of saying that right now there is no Pope and that has some direct impacts on the governance of the church to quickly boil down a complicated and nuanced process, routine governance of the church now falls to the Cardinals, but big decisions are going to have to wait if they can for the next Pope.
Each Pope has what’s known as the papal curia. These are the bishops and cardinals in Rome who help to kind of run and govern church. It’s a bit like the cabinet in American politics or the Privy Council in the uk, but just as cabinet secretaries, like the Secretary of State lose their job when there’s a new president, the Cual officials can now no longer exercise their office with a few important exceptions. There are two men who don’t lose their roles since they have important roles in keeping the lights on in the Vatican as we await a new Pope and also in helping to facilitate the process by which we elect a new Pope. The first of those is the Pip Cameron lingo, who I’ve already mentioned. The second is the major penitentiary that’s the head of the Vatican judicial system, handless things like serious cases of excommunication.
Now he’s actually fairly new in his role for only about under a year, Cardinal Angelo de Nas, but these two roles are really important in this process, so much so that if either of them had not been in place, the first step that the Cardinals would’ve taken would’ve been to elect people into those offices to help organize everything as we move forward. As for everyone else, the various offices, what are called Dicastries are permitted to still carry out day-to-day work as well as truly urgent matters that have to be handled right away, but they’re supposed to hold off on any of the more serious or controverted matters that are capable of being postponed. Step three, pray for the Pope. This step is critical. It’s why at the beginning of this video I petitioned you to pray for the Pope. It should be happening right now.
We should be praying for Pope Francis. Whether you think he was a terrific pope or a terrible Pope, whether you’re Catholic or not, it does not matter. We should pray for those who have died. In two Maccabees chapter 12, Judas Maccabees prays for his fellow countrymen who were s slain in battle, and he raises a collection for sin offerings to be sacrificed for them in the temple. And the word of God says for if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again. It would’ve been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore, he made atonement for the dead that they might be delivered from their sin. Now, of course, we no longer need sin offerings.
Jesus Christ is the perfect offering for our sins, but we do still need prayers. It is still a holy and pious thought to pray for those who have died. And this is true in a special way for those in leadership positions like the Pope, to those whom the Lord is entrusted much, he demands much. In one Timothy chapter two, St. Paul reminds us to pray for kings and all who are in high positions and we’re reminded in Hebrews 1317 of the care we should show. For those in positions of authority within the church, obey your leaders and submit to them for they’re keeping watch over your souls as men who will have to give account. Today, Pope Francis gave his account before Jesus Christ, his mediator, his Lord and his judge, each one of us shall one day do the same. Step four, the papal funeral following the Pope’s death, there is a nine day period of mourning for the Pope.
Why nine days? It’s a combination spiritual and practical reasons spiritually nine days. This is the time between Jesus’s ascension into heaven and the descent of the Holy Spirit. The disciples are described in Acts chapter one as spending those nine days with Mary in prayer. So if you’re familiar with a novena, the nine day period of prayer, that’s the biblical basis for that practice. Nine days also is a pragmatic angle as well. We want to give the cardinals from around the world time to come back from celebrating Easter in their home diocese to gather together in Rome, both for the Pope’s funeral and to prepare for the papal conclave that’s going to follow. Now, the precise time of the post funeral has not been announced yet as of this recording, but it typically happens four to six days into this nine day period of mourning. I believe St.
John Paul II’s funeral was on day six, so I would anticipate Pope Francis’s funeral will happen perhaps Friday or Saturday of this week. But it’s during this time that you’re also going to see the biggest impact of Pope Francises changes to the liturgical process. Now, there’s actually a special liturgical book that just deals with what to do when a Pope dies. And last year the Vatican published an updated edition of that document. Why? Because Pope Francis worried that the right had become too overloaded and he wanted a papal funeral to look more like an ordinary Christian funeral. When a Pope dies, you often get huge crowds of people. When St. John Paul II died in 2005, some three or 4 million people went to his funeral, another 2 billion more my college age, self included, watched on tv. People waited some 13 hours just to process by his body.
And it’s true that can become a spectacle and a kind of media circus, but I think it’s more than that. It’s an important time to pray for the dead man, and it’s also an important time in which many of us are forced to think about our own mortality, our death, our judgment, and to think about the Pope and about Catholic Christianity and my own life witnessing John Paul II’s general was an important catalyst in coming to take my own faith seriously. And I think we shouldn’t underestimate how rarely many of us actually come face-to-face with death in the modern world. Now, traditionally that face-to-face encounter with death happened pretty literally in part because the dead Pope’s body was laid on pillows upon a raised platform. This is what was called a cattle falk, allowing the crowds in the world at large to see the dead Pope.
The Pope Francis has actually had this change to an open coffin instead so that in his words, the Pope should be laid to rest with dignity like any Christian and not on big pillows. Now, speaking of coffins, prior to Pope Francis, there was a longstanding practice of burying the Pope in a triple coffin. At his funeral, the Pope was laid in a cypress coffin. Afterward that coffin was wrapped with a red ribbon sealed and placed in a metal casket, a zinc one in Benedict’s case, which was in turn placed in an oak coffin. Pope Francis, perhaps unsurprisingly, found all this two grand, and so this was another part of the process that he simplified last year. Now, there’s other similar changes that you’re going to see, but the general gist is that things are more stripped down. In the words of the Pope’s master of ceremonies, the renewed rite also needed to emphasize even more that the funeral of the Roman pontiff is out of a pastor and disciple of Christ and not of a powerful person of this world.
The revised liturgical rubrics also foresee the possibility of a Pope being buried outside of the Vatican. In fact, Pope Francis himself won’t be buried in the Vatican. He’s going to be buried outside the Vatican, still in Rome as Santa Maria Maggiore the basilica of St. Mary Major. And while that might raise some eyebrows for Catholics used to seeing pope’s buried in St. Peter’s, it’s actually not all that unusual. As recently as 1903, Pope Leo II was buried at the basilica of St. John Larin and there are already six other popes buried at St. Mary Major Step five, preparing to elect a new pope in addition to being an important spiritual period for praying for the Pope. This is also a time in which preparations begin for the next papal conclave, the Dean of the College of Cardinals is responsible for preparing the papal conclave in this case.
That’s Cardinal Giovanni Batiste Ray. Now that’s going to be significant for two reasons. One cardinal ray chaired the 2013 papal conclave that elected Pope Francis, but two Cardinal Ray is 91 years old, meaning that he’s going to be preparing a conclave he doesn’t get to actually participate in. I’m going to talk about the conclave itself in a few minutes, but these preparatory meetings before the conclave are important for a couple of reasons. First, the conclave itself is secretive. It’s under lock and key. Even the name conclave conclave with key is a reference to it being in a locked room. So the closest most of us are ever going to get to seeing the goings on of electing a pope is this period before the conclave. But second, this is also a time in which the elder cardinals can express themselves and offer counsel to their younger brethren.
As you may know, only cardinals participate in the conclave that Alexa next Pope, but it’s not all cardinals, just those cardinals who are under the age of 80 at the time of the Pope’s death cardinals aged 80 or older aren’t even allowed in the conclave. That’s why Cardinal Ray, even though he is going to be setting up the conclave, isn’t going to get to participate in it himself. It also means that Cardinal George Allen Sherry, who just turned 82 days ago, is also not going to be allowed to participate. Now that rule is relatively recent. Pope St. Paul II created the rule in 1970, and at the time, it didn’t impact that many cardinals. The first papal conclave after the rule change was in 1978 in the conclave that elected Pope John Paul the first. Now, at that time there were 111 cardinals under the age of 80, so voting age and only 15 cardinals over the age of 80.
Today there are 135 cardinals under the age of 80. So of voting age, you’re going to see some sources I’ve already seen saying 1 38 or 1 39. That’s because three of them recently turned 80 just in the time since Pope Francis got sick. And another Cardinal Beck is under the age of 80, but is barred from participating owing to his conviction in a financial corruption scandal. But today, instead of 15 cardinals over the age of 80, they’re now 117. So what role are these older cardinals going to play? Well, as Pope St. John Paul II explained, while they can’t participate in the conclave itself, they can participate in the preparatory meetings of the conclave. So this is an important time for them to express their influence and guidance. Now, amongst the 135 cardinals that are of voting age, most of them are in their seventies. You do have some younger men in the mix.
The youngest is only 45 years old. There are 14 others who are in their fifties, but perhaps most significantly 108 of them were made cardinals by Pope Francis. That means that only 27 of the 135 cardinal electors participating in the next papal conclave have ever voted in a papal conclave before. So it’s not just that they don’t know the ins and outs of papal conclaves. It also means in many cases they don’t know one another very well. The College of Cardinals today is more geographically diverse than at any point in history. The 135 cardinal electors come from some 71 different countries, even the most represented countries, Italy and the US only have 17 and 10 cardinal electors respectively. So you’ve got all these cardinal electors coming together for the first time from all over the world, getting to know one another in many cases for the very first time.
And in a quite short period of time, they’re going to be asked to elect a new pope. And it’s here. I suspect we’re going to see the non-voting cardinals trying to play an important guiding role. After all, there are 75 living cardinals who are now too old to vote, but who have participated in prior papal conclaves who know what that’s like. And like all of us, they have opinions about what they think their younger brethren should be looking for in selecting a new pope. Now, this is actually part of a somewhat formal process. The whole group of cardinals come together and what’s called a general congregation. Now, participation in the general congregation is mandatory for cardinal electors. It’s optional for cardinals over 80. They then have what are called particular congregations. These are run by the Cardinal Cameron Lingo and three other cardinals whose names are chosen by lot, who will then perform several important tasks like sorting out the funeral arrangements for the Pope, but also their tasked with choosing two members of the clergy known for their sound doctrine, wisdom and moral authority, who are then given the task of presenting to the Cardinals two well-prepared meditations on the problems facing the church at the time and on the need for careful discernment in choosing the new Pope.
Now that first meditation is given before the conclave actually starts. The second meditation is given at the very beginning of the conclave itself. Step six, the conclave and a new pope between 15 to 20 days from today, the papal conclave will begin. What that means, practically speaking, is this. The electors that is those electors eligible to vote will gather together in the Sistine Chapel, along with a handful of assistants who are going to help run things by gathering ballots, assisting in firm cardinals, housekeeping, providing food the like. Everyone involved, both the cardinals and anyone else helping in the conclave in any way is Zi told. They have to swear an oath of secrecy. And the penalty for revealing the details is automatic excommunication. The papal master of ceremony Zen says Extra MNAs, which is Latin for everybody else or less formerly beat it, and everybody who isn’t supposed to be there has to leave and the doors are locked conclave.
Now, I cannot stress enough how seriously secrecy is taken during this time. If you’re somebody who happens to have business in the Vatican that day and you see a cardinal elector for some reason, you’re literally forbidden from making conversation with them during this time. Wifi is blocked inside the conclave. They actually sweep the area for recording devices. In 2013, they used a Faraday cage to block out electronic spine equipment and to prevent both incoming and outgoing calls. And as you might imagine, the world’s intelligence agencies would love to eavesdrop on this process given how important the Pope is in world affairs. So you might be wondering why this obsession with secrecy though, and I would suggest it’s for much the same reason modern democracies rely upon secret balloting. It helps to ensure a free vote without fear of recrimination for backing the wrong horse. And you also don’t want a situation where say, an American cardinal is getting phone calls from the president or the CIA telling him how he should be voting or asking him for intel during the process because something more important than church politics or secular politics is at stake here in case the cardinal electors needed any reminding of that fact.
Michelangelo painted the famous last judgment fresco right there in the Sistine Chapel where it stares at them. If that’s not enough, well an order to vote each cardinal brings his ballot to the altar and declares, I call as my witness Christ, the Lord who will be my judge that my vote is given to the one who before God I think should be elected. In other words, you’re saying before God that you’re casting a good faith ballot, not just engaging in political chicanery or the like. Now much of the process is devoted to common prayer, and there are particular prayers written for just this occasion. For instance, the collect at mass during each day of the conclave is this prayer God who as eternal shepherd govern your flock with ceaseless protecting care from your immense mercy grant to the church, the shepherd who will be pleasing to you in holiness of character and beneficial for us in watchful concern.
So how does one actually become the pope? Now, given the secrecy of the proceedings, we know only the scant test details about what goes on on a day by day basis. But here’s what we do know and what you can expect if you’re watching from home. Technically, the only requirements to become Pope are that you’re a baptized male Catholic. You don’t even strictly speaking have to be a cardinal or a bishop, even a priest. If the cardinals wanted to get together and all write in horn, they could. But in reality, the last time anyone other than a cardinal was elected was in 1378. So almost certainly be a cardinal. In fact, the ballots, what are called scrutinies, they contain the names pre-written of all the cardinals, both those over and under 80. So anybody else would be literally a write-in candidate. And of course, it’s not enough that you get one cardinal to vote for you.
What’s needed is a two thirds majority. Now, assuming that all 135 cardinal electors are able to participate, this means that the next pope will be the man that’s voted for by at least 90 of the cardinals present. Now, how does that happen? Well, the conclave proceedings are led by the most senior cardinal bishop in this case as a 70-year-old Italian cardinal Pietro Perlin, who served as Secretary of State for Pope Francis. And once everybody has sworn to secrecy, once the master of ceremonies is given that everybody out the extras, it’s then time for the second of the two meditations. Remember, the first one happened before the conclave started. So whoever the cardinals choose is going to then preach to them on the issues facing the church, but also on the importance of choosing the next pope. Well, the preacher then leaves the conclave cardinal Perin will then walk everybody through the instructions for how a conclave works.
The cardinal electors at the end of all of this kind of orientation process will decide whether or not they think they’re ready to vote or if they want to wait until day two. Now, the system of voting is designed to ensure both that electors identities are protected and the process is safe from tampered. I’m going to spare you all of the details, but there are a few aspects I thought were interesting. So I thought I’d share them. The most junior cardinal deacon in this case, the 51-year-old Italian cardinal George Ade. He is going to draw lots at the beginning of the conclave to fill three important roles. First, he’s going to draw the names of three cardinals to become what are called scrutineers. Their job is to tabulate the ballots. Then he’s going to draw three cardinals who are chosen as revisers. They double check the work of the scrutinous, make sure there are no mathematical errors or no corruption or anything like that.
And then third, three cardinals names are drawn as infra. Their job is to collect the ballots of cardinals who may be too sick or physically incapable of presenting themselves at the altar to vote. Finally, the cardinal electors actually vote. Now, as I say, if they’re ready to vote on day one, they can. If they do, they only vote once in the afternoon. But real earnest voting begins beyond the second day, and which there are two votes in the morning, and then two in the afternoon or evening every day from there on until one candidate has two thirds or more of the vote. And as you probably already know, after each round of voting, the ballots are then burnt. If a pope was not chosen, they’re burnt black. If a pope was chosen, they’re burnt white. Now, there have been times where the smoke color has actually been confusing, and I’ve talked about that previously in my episode, reviewing Mel Gibson’s appearance on the Joe Rogan Show.
You can find out more about that if you look at the episode in the description below. But that’s what we’re going to be watching for from home. What is the smoke color? And then once we see the white smoke, well, no, we have a new pulp, and I don’t think we’re actually going to be waiting too long since they read out within the conclave, the tally of which cardinals have which numbers of votes. This system works surprisingly quickly. It becomes apparent whether particular is appealing to a majority of cardinals or not. So it takes less time than you might imagine. So in 2013, for instance, there was no obvious choice to succeed. Pope Benedict the 16th. The world didn’t know who the next Pope was going to be, and yet Pope Francis was elected at the end of day two. Since they’d voted once on day one, it only took them five overall ballots.
That’s a pretty efficient process. So all that’s to say I don’t think we’re going to have to wait too long. Gone are the days where Papal conclaves would sometimes take months, or in one particularly bad case, two years. I think we’re going to be looking at a few days max once second, conclave begins 15 to 20 days from now. Now, that actually leaves one final step before the Pope has actually been elected. Once a particular candidate has received two thirds or more of the vote, the Cardinal Dean asks two questions. Number one, do you accept your canonical election as supreme ponti? He’s actually free to say no. If he does or back to the starting point, or if he says yes, we move on to the second question by what name do you wish to be called? That then leaves the last final, the crucial step, the proto deacon of the College of Cardinals, the 72-year-old Moroccan born French cardinal, Dominique Mati will proclaim the famous Haus Popham.
We have a Pope announcement announcing in Latin that we have a Pope, what his given name is, what his surname is, and finally what his new papal name is. So if you don’t know Latin and you’re just listening for the proper names, those are the ones to listen for in that order. So now hopefully you know what to look for and what to expect, and the days and weeks to come, and I hope that you’ll join me in praying both for the repose of the soul of Pope Francis and for the wisdom and guidance of the Cardinals who are tasked with electing a new Pope. For Shameless Popery, I’m Joe Heschmeyer. God bless you.