Catholic therapist and author of “Beyond the Birds and the Bees,” Dr. Greg Popcak continues his discussion with Trent about how to raise sexually whole and holy kids.
Welcome to The Counsel of Trent podcast, a production of Catholic Answers.
Trent Horn:
Thanks for being here, everyone. I decided to front load the episodes this month, because I know little John Paul Horn will be born soon, and it’s good to have some episodes at the ready because I’ll have my hands full with the little guy. So excited. And I’m excited for you all because today is part two of my interview with Dr. Popcak on how to talk to kids about chastity. If you want more resources on that, if you’re a premium subscriber, we have a segment of the audiobook, Made This Way, how to teach your kids about tough moral issues, I co-wrote with Leila Miller. Some excerpt of the audiobook is available for premium subscribers at trenthornpodcast.com. You can also get the book anywhere good Catholic books are sold. Now without further ado, here is part two of my interview with Dr. Gregory Popcak on how to talk to kids about chastity.
Okay, what I think will be great now, especially for a lot of our listeners. And if you wanted or thinking to yourself, “Wait, what was the other part of the acronym of respect?” I would recommend that you pick up Dr. Popcak’s book that he authored with his wife, Beyond the Birds and the Bees at a local Catholic bookstore near you.
Let’s dive in now to the specifics of different age groups of children, because I know that there are different people who may be listening, maybe parenting very young children, maybe parenting children that are just getting ready to leave the house, and all these general tips we’ve learned. I think we can tell they would apply in different way to different ages. So let’s start with the very youngest. I think it’s difficult for parents when issues of sexuality come up with children under the age of six. Infancy, toddlerhood, early childhood. That question, “Where do babies come from?” Or maybe they see their three or four-year-old touching themselves inappropriately, and they know it’s completely innocent, but they’re still wondering, “Oh no, what do I do? I don’t want to have the issue of sex come anywhere near my toddler.” In your book, you talk really about laying a lot of foundations during these ages. So how do we approach these issues with very, very young children? What are some of these foundations we should be laying?
Dr. Greg Popcak:
As matter of factly as possible. I mean, sort of the specific situations warrant different responses, obviously. But as far as, “Where do babies come from?” I mean, it can be just as innocent as, “Well, God gives us babies.” But it might also be nice to kind of take a trip to a farm in the spring and just kind of see… There are lots of times exhibition farms where you’ll get an e-letter and they say, “Okay, well, so-and-so calf is being born,” or whatever, and you can kind of come and see. Or at least see the calf who has been born, and just kind of talk a little bit about that. The way you’re able to just sort of make it as natural as possible and as matter of fact as possible, just like you talk about anything else in the world. It doesn’t have to be this big, scary, mystifying thing. It is a mystery and it is beautiful and it is powerful, but it doesn’t have to be scary. The more we can take that out of it and just be simple and matter of fact about it and call things by their proper name and describe their proper function in a simple, innocent way, then the better.
Trent Horn:
Okay. What would be some specific examples then? Let’s say you have a young child, a young boy or girl, whatever it might be, under the age of six, and they’re curious about their own bodies. I know that maybe some parents are going to use maybe not the precise anatomical name for different body parts or their function, but nicknames or things like that. What is some of your advice when dealing with using language with very young children to talk to them about their bodies?
Dr. Greg Popcak:
Again, I think that using the proper names for things is important. You don’t have to be religious about that, you can never call something by a nickname or whatever. But I think that the more you can… You call fingers fingers, and toes toes. Why not call a penis a penis? I mean, it is what it is, right?
Trent Horn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dr. Greg Popcak:
We don’t have to be secretive or whatever about that kind of thing. The more direct, and simple, and matter of fact we can be, the more it demystifies it. You talked earlier when we were talking about Aunt McGillicuddy’s Antique Urn, you said it’s not this sort of mysterious, forbidden urn. Or to use the classic, the forbidden fruit of the garden. Everybody kind of holds up sexuality as this forbidden fruit that… If we can just be matter of fact about it and say it’s part of life, and integrate it into our conversations in life, then it just becomes less of that forbidden fruit. It’s less mysterious. It’s less scary. It’s just this is what it is, and let’s deal with it for what it is.
Trent Horn:
I think what’s also important is you talk a lot about instilling… Because when we’re talking about sexuality, we want to talk about the goodness of the body. So what are some ways that we lay this foundation with even very young children, that their bodies are good, their bodies are theirs, and that they serve a certain function?
Dr. Greg Popcak:
Like I was sharing a little bit earlier about the ways that we can use our bodies to work for each other’s good by being affectionate, by doing our chores and those kinds of acts. Just saying, “Wow, what a strong young man you are. What a helpful young woman you are. I love when your arms are around me. God really gave you the ability to give really good hugs, didn’t he? God really gave you hands to really help out well. Thank you for using your hands that way.” I mean, it might sound silly to do that, but that’s a little catechism. You’re teaching them what their body is for, and that God gave us our bodies to work for each other’s good. Those simple little lessons. Even for example, if a child, say, three, four, five has a little brother or sister, a baby, and they want to hold the baby. Be like, “Well, let’s be gentle. God wants you to be affectionate. It’s your baby brother, but you have to be gentle and use your body in a gentle way.” So you’re teaching that child how to be that gift to his little brother and sister, and to use his body in a way that communicates love, not just any way he wants to. Or if siblings are smacking each other around, and it’s not just because they’re playing and wrestling and whatever, but they’re actually being abusive. You have to be able to say, “God did not give you your body to hurt another person. He gave you your body to be loving, and to be affectionate, and to work for each other’s good. You need to say you’re sorry. Not just to each other for hurting each other, but sorry to God for misusing your body, and using it to communicate anger and hatred instead of love and caring.”
Trent Horn:
Very good. Well, the next age group you talk about, so once we’ve left toddlerhood, early childhood, maybe children are in elementary school. You talk about the innocence years. The years after they’re done being toddlers and young children, but they haven’t hit puberty just yet. So around age six to 11, the innocence years. Why are these the innocent years and what are some areas that parents should focus on as their children go through this age group?
Dr. Greg Popcak:
This age group is really all about friendship and it’s all about what they call industry. Sort of setting goals and meeting them, right? This is the age where kids start taking on hobbies. They start going to dance class, and they start going to sports, and they start doing those activities. So they call them the years of innocence. This is, by the way, in The Truth and Meaning of Human Sexuality, which was a document put out by the Pontifical Council for the Family. But these are sort of developmental stages of psychosexuality. Freud called these the latent years, because there weren’t overt conversations about sexuality in genitals and those sorts of things, which tended to go more on in the toddlerhood and early childhood years as a child is discovering their body. Now the child becomes other focused and activity focused. So these are not the years where necessarily you’re directly addressing sexual issues, but it is a time in life where you’re talking about friendship and you’re talking about setting goals and working for things that are worth working for. So this is a really important time in the formation of a child’s sexuality, because ultimately what you’re doing here is teaching the child what the meaning of friendship is. How to choose good friends, how friendship is really about working for the good of each other and not leading each other into temptation and making good choices. When you’re sending your kid off to school or your kid tells you about something going on with his friends, or maybe he asks you to hang out with somebody or she asks you to hang out with somebody that you’re not really crazy about. Your initial reaction might be to say, “Well, I’m not going to let you hang out with those people.” Sometimes we need to make that call as parents. That’s okay, ultimately. But sometimes it’s also good to say, “I have some questions about that situation or about this person, but I need to see you being,” what I call 11. The person who raises the bar or the person who challenges the other kids to do better. If this is a situation that you can turn around by being that person, that godly person, then great. You can be there. If not, if the influence is too strong and I see you getting pulled down, then I’ll take you out of it. But we’re teaching kids how to have healthy friendships, how to stand up for themselves and stand up for what’s right and what’s good, how to set goals and meet them. The fact that the good things are important to wait for. This is a good time of life to kind of teach kids the importance of delayed gratification. Not by depriving them of things, as some parents will do. But rather by saying, “Hey, if this is something that you want, let’s work toward that. Let’s save a little bit every week out of your allowance.” Or, “Let’s earn the privilege by doing these chores, and work up to this thing that you want.” Giving them goals and helping them work hard to meet those things. Because of course, chastity is a hard goal to achieve, and it takes a lot of work. So whenever we’re forming that whole character and teaching kids that we need to wait for good things, that’s certainly an important lesson that applies later on to sexuality then.
Trent Horn:
The Pontifical Council for the Family calls these the innocent years, the innocence years. I think I’d have to agree most six-year-olds, eight and nine-year-olds aren’t interested in sexuality. But as you know in the culture we live in, a lot of times that innocence can get broken. You might have more control over what your kids see when they’re very young, but if they’re in elementary school, it seems like every kid’s got an iPhone these days. How should parents respond when children in this age group, when that innocence kind of gets broken by others and they might have to step in when it might feel very uncomfortable to do that?
Dr. Greg Popcak:
I like to make a distinction. Lisa and I talk about the difference between innocence and naivete. Naivete just means I haven’t been exposed to something. Innocence means that I’m able to protect my integrity as a person, whether I’ve seen something or I haven’t. I’m able to think the best about someone and about life, even if I’ve seen some dark things. I know what’s what. I just choose to do what’s good and to think about what’s good, and pure, and holy, and right. That’s real innocence. Innocence certainly can be cultivated and ideally should be cultivated in that sort of early naivete where I’m not exposing my child to all kinds of dark things. But just because my child has seen something inappropriate or something I wish they hadn’t, doesn’t necessarily mean that their innocence has been taken away or broken. It’s about, “How do I help them process that in a way that still allows them to see what’s good, and what’s true, and what’s beautiful?” So if they see something that’s inappropriate, then I might ask them, “How did that make you feel?” And they might say, “Well, that made me feel funny. That made me feel bad. That made me feel wrong.” Like, “Well, yeah, because they were using their bodies in a way that God didn’t want them to, and that is sad and that should feel wrong. But we know how to use our bodies in a way that makes our bodies a gift, and enables people to feel loved. We want to make sure that we’re always making choices with our bodies that help us do that, instead of the kinds of things that use our bodies to make people feel bad, or funny, or awkward, or uncomfortable, or even hurt, like what you saw there.” So you’re able to be very matter of fact, very positive, but very direct too about why they feel weird, why they feel funny, why they feel that it’s wrong. Because kids really do have a natural sense of that.
Trent Horn:
All right. Well, let’s go to, I think, the age group most parents go and seek out the help when they feel overwhelmed. That would be once puberty makes its onset or what’s been called the apprenticeship years. So puberty’s hit, 10 or 11 up until about the age of 14 or so. So I guess, well, one, why are these the apprenticeship years? What are the children being apprenticed to? And just what are, I guess, your general advice you have either for reaching out to boys who are going through puberty, and then girls, obviously, because now the sexes hit their unique challenges?
Dr. Greg Popcak:
Yeah, I mean, I think that they’re the apprenticeship years because we’re teaching them how to have a relationship. This is the time where they’re really especially interested in the opposite sex. They start having crushes. I mean, and sometimes that happens earlier, but they’re really interested now. So they’re needing to learn what it means to relate to the opposite sex. Ideally, all along, they’ve had the opportunity because of their brothers and sisters, or because of their friendship groups at school or wherever, to interact with both boys and girls, and see that the other sex is not an alien species. I think one of the most important lessons of this time that parents can convey to their kids is, “Don’t forget, young man, girls are just like you. Don’t forget, young woman, boys feel just like you do. Sometimes they express them in different ways, but the feelings are still very much there, because they’re people just like you. So make sure that you’re not treating them any differently than you would want to be treated, or thinking about them in any ways that you would not want them to think about you. Because it’s not that there’s a secret code for girls and a secret code for boys. We express things a little bit differently, but we feel a lot of the same kinds of things, and think a lot of the same kinds of things, and have a lot of the same kinds of insecurities.” And for parents to remind their children that the opposite sex is a person, just like you. It’s very simple, but a very important lesson at this age. Because you want to make sure that the kids really see a relationship, especially a dating relationship, ultimately, as an outgrowth of a friendship with another person. As opposed to, I don’t know, some weird thing, some social ritual that society tells you you have to go through to prove you’re man enough or be cool enough to your friends. This is really a deepening of a friendship between two people who know each other well and who care about each other.
Trent Horn:
Well, let’s go into then for each group, especially for parents who have children of different sexes, what they’re going to be going through. What are some of the challenges that are found more in helping boys work through puberty, and how should we, as parents, relate to that, how should we help them to navigate this difficult stretch as they begin their journey into adulthood that we find more that boys might end up struggling with?
Dr. Greg Popcak:
Sure. Well, of course, masturbation is a big issue at this time. A lot of times, it begins in a very innocent way, where suddenly they experience arousal, or sometimes they might have a wet dream, or they’re not sure what this feeling is whenever they touch themselves, and then all of a sudden, there’s an ejaculation. But then it kind of grows from there. So just really teaching the boys from an early age just, “Okay, this is what’s going to be happening to you. These are the kinds of feelings that you might be expecting to have.” Again, just kind of building on the conversation that we’ve been having all along. All these feelings, all this, this is all about God getting you ready to make a gift of yourself in a special way to somebody else. So this is a time where we really work on taking care of our bodies well by showering and using deodorant, and taking care of ourselves, and by learning how to be a good custodian of those feelings that we’re having. So that we don’t use those feelings in selfish ways, but we use those feelings in ways that ultimately build up relationship and work for the good of another person. In a large part at this age, that’s going to mean self-mastery. That’s going to mean learning how you can’t just do everything you want to do exactly when you want to do it, especially if you want to love somebody else. This is a time to start learning how to do that so that you can be the kind of man that Jesus is for all of us, who was willing to sacrifice himself, and sacrifice his comfort, and sacrifice even his desires to work for our good and to help us become everything that we were created to be. For a young woman, being able to… Again, a lot of the same kinds of messages, really, about taking care of her body and the gift of her body, and the importance of really preparing herself emotionally and mentally. Because of course, when she starts ovulating, then she is going to have an increased arousal as well. So being able to kind of talk about how again, those feelings are ultimately God preparing her to be able to give herself completely to another person. But this is a time where you learn to do that in a way that exhibits that self-mastery that says, “You can’t do everything you want whenever you want to do it if you really want to be loving to somebody else.” So kind of talking through all of those kinds of things, and again, as a positive, supportive, affirming, and relational way as possible.
Trent Horn:
Okay, so I think definitely that’s one thing with boys that we might see more, but also with girls too, the temptation of masturbation or pornography. Looking over at the challenge maybe girls might face in the onset of puberty, what is some advice for parents maybe when girls might be dealing with issues related to their self-esteem, comparing themselves to other girls, finding their value in whether boys like them? What are some ways parents can navigate those kinds of attitudes that their young girls may start developing?
Dr. Greg Popcak:
Well, and again, a lot of that kind of comes from the groundwork that you’ve laid in those years of innocence, by helping kids… When we were talking about setting goals and meeting them, a big mistake that a lot of parents make is they don’t really help their children discover their interests or their talents, and encourage those interests and talents. Because a kid who really has a clear sense of the things that I like to do, and enjoys setting those goals and meeting those goals is going to be much less likely to be a kid who defines themselves on whether I can get this boy to like me or that girl to like me. They can be the kid who really enjoys programming a computer, or shooting hoops, or being in the play, or playing this instrument, or whatever it is that they do. They see themselves as that sort of a person, as opposed to the person who can get this guy or this girl to like me. So making sure that you’re really cultivating those talents and abilities. Especially in those junior high years, but hopefully before that. So that the kid really has that sense of identity. The other thing that’s really important at this age is really kind of clarifying for that child that sense of mission as well. God created each of us to do something. To live out those virtues that help us live a fully human life. So this is a great time to kind of ask, “Well, what kind of person do you want to be known for when you grow up? As you’re becoming a young man, young woman, what are those qualities that you most want people to be able to say, ‘Hey, she stood for that. Hey, he was a person who did this.’?” And kind of talking them through that, because as you head into adolescence, which we’ll talk about next, a big part of that is clarifying their identity. Kids at this age really hate hypocrites, right? So you want to use that to your advantage by helping them clarify what they want to be known for. Well, I want to be a kid who’s friendly, and who’s kind, and who’s generous, and who’s loving. Okay. So you have them come up with that list of things they want to be known for, and then you sort of reflect their behavior back at them. Well, when you made that choice to not let your sister borrow your sweater, was that the most generous and loving thing you could have done? When you chose to use that bad word to talk about a girl, was that the most loving thing you could have done? You’re asking them to kind of reflect on those virtues that they say are important to them, so that they can have a greater sense of integrity. And owning that identity for themselves, so that as they go out in the world more on their own, you don’t have to be breathing down their necks to make them do the right thing.
Trent Horn:
I think another challenge parents often face in this age gap, junior high, early high school is competition in values. Especially if they send their children to a public school, or lots of different schools, for that matter, their children will be receiving oftentimes sex education from either peers or schools will be teaching it. Now, I know usually they’re supposed to send home a letter. You can opt out or opt in. What is your advice then for parents to balance their children interacting with others and how they should face these opportunities for sex education from other people? What do you think is the wisest way to approach this alternative sex education people may be proposing to children at this age?
Dr. Greg Popcak:
Well, I will say what Pope Saint John Paul the Great often said, “Be not afraid,” right? There’s really no such thing as opting out. That’s kind of an illusion that the parents give schools so that they don’t have to put up with parents complaining. But if a school is going to do sex ed with your kids, even if you sign that paper that opts them out, guess what everybody’s going to be talking about after that lecture? In fact, it’s going to be worse, because they’re going to get it second and third-hand, instead of getting the bad information from the teacher in the first place. So my suggestion would be to get there first. That if you know that your kid’s going to go through this course, if you can get the curriculum ahead of time, so much the better. If not, then just sort of sit them down and start talking them through our understanding of these things, so that they’ve heard it from you first. Or at least they’re hearing it from you at the same time. So that again, you’re not presenting this sort of fearful, scary approach to it all, where your faith is going to be knocked down by somebody else’s faulty, flawed understanding of sexuality, but you’re able to kind of talk about, “Well…” Again, going back to what I talked about with sin, right? Okay, so they’re going to be talking to you guys about a lot of things that we think is settling. As Catholics, we want to make sure that you have the kind of relationships where you don’t have to ever feel afraid of being abandoned by somebody, where you don’t have to feel afraid of being used by somebody, where you don’t do anything that you ever feel ashamed of, where you don’t get in over your head and feel stuck, and afraid, and trapped by what you’ve done. A lot of the things that they’re talking about, they’re talking because people settle. They’ve settled for less, and so they’re trying to clean up those messes in those classes. We really want you to not have to feel like that’s all there is for you. There’s a lot more. So these are the kinds of things that people who settle do. They use contraception and they don’t wait for marriage and whatever else. But that’s all settling and ultimately, it leads you to feeling less happy and less fulfilled than you would if you chose to do these other things instead. So you’re presenting it as a positive option, and you’re not being afraid of what they’re learning, because you’re framing it more in the context that it deserves to be framed in. And like, “Okay, well, that’s fine that you know about those things, but as long as you know that that’s less. They’re settling for less, and I want more for you. I think you ought to want more for you too.”
Trent Horn:
All right, and now we’ve come to the last stage group, which would be the later teen years, maybe age 14 and 15 up till 18, and then of course, beyond. But these will be called the vocational years. So the groundwork that’s been laid comes to fruition here. How can parents maximize this time in these later high school years, especially when subjects like, “I want to date so-and-so,” or, “Hey mom, can I get birth control?” when this comes more to the forefront? How do parents confront these issues and then maximize this time to build up the vocation in their children?
Dr. Greg Popcak:
Well, because ideally in junior high, you’ve been having those conversations about identity, which include in part their interests, and their talents, and their abilities, and then the other part about their values and the virtues that they want to be known for. And you’ve been having conversations ideally with them all along about how their behavior actually enables them to become more of that kind of person that they say they want to be. You’re keeping those conversations up now. We take more a discipleship approach to parenting in general across all of our parenting books. This is where this really kicks into gear. Up until that point, maybe you are still being more directive and saying don’t do this or don’t do that. In adolescence, you definitely want to take more of that kind of discipleship approach where you’re asking more questions than you’re lecturing or giving answers for. So you’re asking me should you do this or should you do that. What do you think? Why do you think that? Based on the values that you uphold, what do you think you should do? Let’s talk through it. And you’re kind of holding up their values as a mirror to them all the time, asking them what they think a person who exhibited these qualities would do. Again, you’re using the adolescent hatred of hypocrisy against them. Because their feelings might be telling them they want to do all kinds of bad things, but if you can frame it right and they can see that well, making that choice makes them a selfish person as opposed to a generous person, makes them a user instead of a loving person and so on and so on, they’ll choose to do the right thing in spite of themselves. The same thing with relationship. Making sure that you’re encouraging. You’re saying to them, “Look, I want you to be able to have healthy relationships. That’s why I’m putting these boundaries down.” Or, “Here are some things that you want to do.” The other thing too, this is an important time for moms and dads to really be working on their marriage too. Some friends of ours who do a lot of marriage ministry, Ron and Kathy Feher, made a comment that I thought was very, very wise. They said that if we want our children to save themselves for marriage, we need to show them a model of a marriage worth saving themselves for. So this is a really important time for moms and dads to make sure that they’re really taking care of each other and showing their kids all along, really, but especially now, a model of a marriage worth saving themselves for. Because otherwise, if the kids look at your marriage and they say, “Well, that’s just horrible. I’m going to have to go figure out something for myself, because I certainly don’t want what you have,” then you’ve lost all your moral credibility. Anything you say, not only won’t work, but can and will be used against you.
Trent Horn:
Sure. Let’s go into a little bit the boundaries that you alluded to. What do you think are just some wise boundaries parents can place, especially when the subject of dating comes up? Because you want to raise holy and chaste kids, and dating can often be fraught with difficulty and be the context where unchastity occurs. So much to the point where some parents just say, “Well, dating is just verboten. This is just forbidden.” What do you think are some wise boundaries for older adolescents that parents can have in this area?
Dr. Greg Popcak:
I think transparency is really important. Again, that’s going to depend on the quality of your relationship, right? The thing is if your kid isn’t talking to you openly about the things that they’re doing. And people say, “Well, how do you know?” Well, because you know. You can tell when a kid’s hiding something. You can tell. Because you can’t force a kid to come out with stuff they don’t want to tell you, right? You can tell they’re holding back. But if they’re really being open with you and you’ve got that open exchange, that’s a really good thing. You’ve got a discipleship relationship there where you can guide them through it. If you don’t have that, then there are very few rules that will actually work for you. So if you take that kind of dating as verboten or if you’re in three seconds after the curfew, then all hell is going to be set loose on you. You’re setting yourself up for problems. It’s really got to be about cultivating that relationship by putting in the time. That said, there’s nothing wrong with saying, “You have to be home at a certain time.” There’s nothing wrong with saying, “You have to avoid certain situations.” When they say, “Well, don’t you trust me?” Say, “Well, it’s really not about trust. It’s about making sure that you’re never in a situation where you can either be used by somebody else or really tempted by the circumstances to use them. You like this girl, or you like this boy. I want you to be able to have a healthy relationship. That means making sure that you stay in places and do things that help you always be friends to each other first and foremost, and not think of each other as things that you use to make yourself feel better. So whenever you’re in those situations or around those people or out past this time, then it’s much more likely that you’re going to think of each other as things to be used instead of people to be treated well and respected and loved.”
Trent Horn:
Let’s talk. We’re coming near to the end of our time together. I’d like to bring up another hot button issue I alluded to earlier with later adolescence that can come up. How should parents respond to their young girls who may be saying, “Mom and dad, should I just be on birth control? My friends are on it, and my school says I should.”? How should they respond when this subject comes up?
Dr. Greg Popcak:
Well, that your birth control doesn’t really control anything. Birth control treats your natural fertility and the gift of your body as a disease, and it stops you from being able to understand your body appropriately. I really think that this is a good time to give your daughter, in particular, some basic information about how their body works about what ovulation is and those kinds of things. Some parents get upset about that suggestion, because they think that by giving a child that information, that that’s going to let their kids sneak around behind their back and use natural family planning or fertility awareness to sleep around. That’s obviously not the intention. If that’s really what you think of your kid, then you’ve got bigger problems than this. So giving your child some basic information about how their body works and letting them really see the wonder of that, and explaining that hormonal contraception treats all of that as a disease. It turns all that off, and you can’t see the wonder of the body. Beyond that, it increases your likelihood of disease, it poisons the environment. Kids today are very green, and they need to understand that whenever they take these artificial hormones, that that gets washed out of their system and into the water supply. That’s why a lot of places around the country, the USGS, the Geographical Society, is noticing intersex disorder in fish that swim around the water treatment plants, because all these artificial hormones are being pumped into the waterways, and now male fish are producing eggs. We’re seeing environmental problems because of artificial hormones in the water supply and the food. So we’re poisoning ourselves, we’re poisoning our environment. Kids, especially people exercise more than ever, and they eat better than ever, and they’re more health conscious than ever. And then they put this chemical in their body that causes disease and undoes all that hard work. So again, I want more for you. It’s not about not taking contraception. It’s about doing more. It’s about knowing your body better. It’s about being even healthier. It’s about being able to understand the mystery that God has created in you even more.
Trent Horn:
The book is Beyond the Birds and the Bees: Raising Sexually Whole and Holy Kids by Greg and Lisa Popcak. That’s a great resource for our listeners. Another one that we referenced, published by the Pontifical Council on the Family is The Truth and Meaning of Human Sexuality: Guidelines for Education Within the Family. Truth and Meaning of Human Sexuality. You can find that online at the Vatican’s website. Dr. Popcak, what are just some very quick last words of encouragement for parents who are trying to raise holy and chaste kids, and where can they learn more about the work that you’re doing in all of that?
Dr. Greg Popcak:
They say in real estate that the three most important things are location, location, location. Well, the three most important things in moral formation of children is relationship, relationship, relationship. Because if you don’t have that, you have nothing else, right? So that’s the thing, invest in the relationship first and foremost. Everything else can work itself out. But if they want to learn more about how to create those kinds of relationships that makes these conversations natural and really enables children to be disciples, then they can check out our website at catholiccounselors.com. Two Cs, the middle S on the end. Catholiccounselors.com, and check out Beyond the Birds and the Bees: Raising Sexually Whole and Holy Kids, and all of our other parenting and other resources as well.
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