In this episode Trent sits down Fr. Matt Lowry of the Northern Arizona University Newman Center to find out the best ways to help Catholic college students grow in their faith, including the most important thing parents can do with their children.
Welcome to the Council of Trent podcast. A production of Catholic answers.
Trent Horn:
It’s time for a blast from the past here on the Council of Trent podcast. I’m your host, Catholic answers apologist and speaker Trent Horn. Speaking with father Matt Lowry, who is the pastor at the Newman Center at Northern Arizona University. Father Matt Lowry, though I knew him as Matt Lowry, youth minister, St. Teresa parish, which is where I’m going to be speaking actually later tonight. I’m going to be talking about why we are Catholic. And what’s really cool about it is that St. Teresa parish is where I became Catholic. If you have the book, “Why We’re Catholic,” in the dedication page, it’s dedicated to that parish, to all the people of that parish who helped me become Catholic, and father Matt is one of those individuals among many others. So father Matt Lowry, welcome to the Council of Trent podcast.
Fr. Matt Lowry:
It’s great to be here, Trent.
Trent Horn:
So tell us a little bit more about yourself and your journey to the priesthood and what you’re doing now.
Fr. Matt Lowry:
That’s great. I grew up in Phoenix and I went to school at ASU and at the time I was volunteering.
Trent Horn:
I’m micromanaging, but you helped to micromanage my own faith to develop. So I’m paying it back.
Fr. Matt Lowry:
I like feedback, right? So when I was going to college, I was volunteering with the youth group and that’s where we got to know each other. You were in high school. And along that journey, I recognized that I paid attention to what made me happy. And it was serving the Lord and helping other people know the Lord. And so that eventually led me to become a youth minister and then to go to seminary. And one year after being ordained a priest, I was sent to the Newman Center in Flagstaff. And I was like, “What do I know about college students?” And I realized that God had been preparing me with seven years of youth ministry, to then move into college ministry, which I like to say that everything I learned in youth ministry, it actually works in college. You know, like the talks, the technique, all those things, people are a little more mature.
Trent Horn:
But we still want that. I will tell you this. I’m nostalgic. Like, sometimes I just wish I and other adults could just go on a retreat and be treated like teenagers again, like someone would do a skit and then I could sit in a small group. And then at the very end, there would be an affirmation bag with my picture on it. And I would look to see if someone wrote something nice. And then I would hope the girl I have a crush on wrote something and that would be Laura. And I’d be like “Thank goodness. My wife affirmed me. She wrote this nice note.” But yeah, we still want, I guess, to be helped in our faith in that kind of way. And it applies even from teenage years into the college years.
Fr. Matt Lowry:
Well, I think it takes so much energy to reach high school students that if you put that energy towards any other age group, they would totally respond.
Trent Horn:
What have you seen when you are engaging college students at the Newman Center? Because one of the questions I always get, I’ll go and I’ll give talks across the country at parishes, at conferences. This is a question I always get. “Hey Trent, I have a quick question for you.”
Fr. Matt Lowry:
It’s never quick if they say that.
Trent Horn:
Right. “I have a quick question for you. I have a son or daughter who went to college and now they’re not Catholic anymore. What I do?” I’m like, this is a question above my pay grade because it’s dealing with a personal individual issue rather than, “Here’s an argument that I need help with,” because people are way more complicated than arguments are. But I mean, it’s something we hear all the time, right? My son or daughter went to college now they’re not Catholic. And so there’s the challenge. Like what have you seen on college campuses when it leads up to people either, well, I guess especially good Catholics going to a place like NAU and then after a semester or even a year or two, even just one semester, they just stop going to mass. They’re not Catholic anymore. What are you kind of seeing on the ground that kind of leads up to that?
Fr. Matt Lowry:
Well, the good news is there’s a few things that families can do to help instill the faith in their young people. Yeah. First and foremost is our own example and our own witness of the faith. This generation, they’re very into authenticity. And so they see more of what we do than what we say. And so I had one dad say to me, “Oh, my child’s not going to mass.” And I thought to myself, I was like, ‘Well, you’re not going to mass every Sunday. You’re not living the faith.” Now that may not be most of these listeners here today, but it’s kind of like-
Trent Horn:
Or maybe you’re going, but it’s kind of drudgery. Like the kids can see you go just out of obligation or out of habit.
Fr. Matt Lowry:
Do you have your own personal prayer life? Do you stop by the chapel to pray? Because we see when things are genuine. If someone wants to join the military, sometimes it’s because their father was in the military or they want to be a nurse because their mom was a nurse that when we live something authentically, it seeps out, it ebbs out and influences the people around us. And if you’re living the faith authentically, well, that joy, that peace, that kindness, it’s going to affect the people closest to us, our family members.
Trent Horn:
So do you think sometimes you’ll meet Catholic college students or at least students they’ll tell you, “Oh yeah. I went to Catholic school,” or “Yeah. I used to go to mass with my parents,” but maybe they grew up in an environment where it felt kind of inauthentic or everyone’s going just because they have to, and then you get to college and suddenly it’s like, “Wow, I don’t have to go to church on Sunday. Wow. I can stay up and eat Cheetos and drink chocolate milk on Saturday nights.” I had a very wild and crazy college experience, if it’s Cheetos and chocolate milk. By the way, chocolate milk in a glass bottle, don’t dog it until you’ve tried it. Get this stuff in a glass bottle, people. But you know, it’s like you have this freedom. And I see even at Catholic schools, I don’t know if you’ve seen this, that people kind of get drunk on freedom. Is that something that sometimes…
Fr. Matt Lowry:
I think freedom’s a good thing. Right? We love it. And I think coming into college, they may not have experienced the freedom before with the faith, they had to do these things. Or they went to a Catholic high school where they were forced to drink it down. And they were like “No, thank you.” But that’s why I love being on a college campus now is because nobody has to be there. And so when they come, there’s an openness, and God can really do something. Our first week of school, I had a dozen students say to me, different things, different years. One guy said, “Father, it’s been seven years since I’ve been to church, but I want to start coming back.” Or “I haven’t gone to church in two years, father, how do I get more involved with my faith?”
Trent Horn:
What do you think you’ve done at the Newman Center or what’s happening there that prompts these kind of responses?
Fr. Matt Lowry:
I think we try to live Catholic culture authentically, joyfully, especially with true freedom. I saw a young man on campus. I said, “Hey, how you doing?” He’s like “Father, I was out of the town this week. I was sick. I’m sorry, I was in a mess.” I was like, “Bro, I’m just happy to see you. I’m not here with guilt. I want you to know that we’re here and you’re always welcome.” And so I think we don’t always get that from parents, who’re really trying to form and make us do what’s good, brush your teeth, all that, that they’re pushing it down. And we reject that. We reject a lot of things in high school from our parents. And so in college, I do the complete opposite. I was like, “Hey, you’re welcome to come.” I don’t tell them they should come. I help make them want to come.
Trent Horn:
Yeah. I’ve always saw, when people have asked me, “How do you help Catholic college students stay Catholic, especially?” I think the goal is you actually to help them become Catholic. You got people who come to the Newman Center, not even Catholic and not Christian, but there’s something exciting there. I think it was like a triangle. You were a boy scout, right?
Fr. Matt Lowry:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Trent Horn:
Cool. Look at this guy. Of course he’s a boy scout. Were you, were you an eagle scout?
Fr. Matt Lowry:
I am an Eagle scout.
Trent Horn:
Full eagle scout and everything. He could probably rebuild my whole podcast recording set just like from Popsicle sticks. I got the podcast and my [crosstalk 00:08:02] So like in boy Scouts, right? You have the fire triangle. Like what do you need to start a fire? You need fuel, oxygen, spark, lighter, because I can’t start it with anything. So I think of the Catholic college student triangle, you need an intellectual foundation, a spiritual foundation and a communal foundation. So like what I would say, to like get your thoughts on this, to really help Catholic college students. Intellectual foundation is we believe this because it’s true. Not just because we like it, because it might get hard. The spiritual foundation is not just cause it’s true, but it is beautiful, and we enter into relationship. And then communal would be, it’s not just me reading books and going to mass. There’s other people that hold me accountable that are part of my community.
Trent Horn:
I mean, I think one of the biggest things that helped my faith to grow, I mean, I was baptized in junior year of high school. I started with the youth ministry program. I like that you guys did, or I don’t know if you did this. I know Ryan Howe, his successor to youth ministry, he did this, the waiting period. Where like, if you were a high school teen in the youth program, you couldn’t become a college volunteer until you had finished I think it was like your first semester of college. Like you had to kind of go get your own life. I don’t know. Did you do that in your youth minister?
Fr. Matt Lowry:
Not necessarily, but that sounds wise.
Trent Horn:
You granted dispensations for people. But I mean this idea, I think what helped, I was in college, like my other core members, other people who are excited about their faith, like we would go to mass together and then go out to other places. And because I’m young, it’s like we would go to Sonic or go to subway and now I’m like “My tummy.” It would not feel good if I did that. But do you see that? Especially like for Catholic college students, I think the communal aspect part, not to be judgemental, but to have like that warm sense of accountability. What do you think?
Fr. Matt Lowry:
I think it is primary in college. It’s all about relationships. And so it’s friends that bring their friends to church. Or there’s a social happening, a dance. Every time we do a social activity, new people come and that’s what starts it. They come for the sizzle, but then they stay for the steak then eventually they have an encounter with the Lord. Right? So the spiritual opportunity, which is different, because my parents, they try to give me the Lord, but at a certain point I have to make my own response. Right. And so on our retreats, we try to create that opportunity. We invite people to come and pray in the chapel to have adoration time. And then along the way we’re giving them the intellectual formation, which I think is actually really good. It challenges parents, because young people have really good questions. And you’re like, I don’t know the answers to this. It’s like, well then we need to go learn and help direct them to resources and people. But I think it challenges us. Like I don’t have the answers to these questions they’re raising. It’s like, well we got to get in into it. How are they going to have the answers? So let’s learn together.
Trent Horn:
Right. Because otherwise it’s like you’re building a precarious foundation where for you, the only thing holding your faith up now is just like habit. And then look what happened with the pandemic. It’s like suddenly if you’ve developed a new habit of not going to church, that can just settle in. So what are some other, I guess, tips that you would give, let’s start with Catholic parents and then maybe we can talk about Catholic students themselves. So like you’re raising say a high schooler. You want him to be on the right path. You want him to stay Catholic in college. When he moves away, how do you build that up without feeling like you’re the overbearing parent?
Fr. Matt Lowry:
That’s a great question. Have honest, spiritual conversations. They did a study recently where they had families who all the children, none of them went to church anymore and you had families where every one of them was still active in their faith. And they said, what’s the difference? They compared all these variables. And they said, the one thing that stood out was that they had spiritual conversations. Well, how do I do that? Well, it starts with just having good conversations. Like tell me you want to get a third piercing? Oh, okay. Tell me about that. Why do you think this is good for you? Do we want to hear their opinion? Or do we just want them to listen to what we have to say. And so when you engage, and maybe you come home and you say, father said this thing in his homily today and actually I was reflecting on that. I really struggle with that. And I want to grow in that area. And I’m sorry for the way that affects you guys. What do you think about the homily? And the child will probably say, well, I don’t remember. And you say, well, he said this, what do you think about that? Well, I don’t know. And you say, okay, but if you have thoughts, I would love to hear them.
Trent Horn:
Right. So you’re playing, essentially it’s the long game. It’s like, okay, I’m not going to try to get everything all neatly tied up in a bow in this one conversation, you’re just going to be gracious and you’re asking open-ended questions. You’re not a prosecutor trying to interrogate somebody. You’re just trying to say, well, what do you think about this? Because a lot of people, most of us people don’t ask us what we think. They just wait for us to be quiet so they can just yammer on. And I’m guilty of yammering myself. I’m yammering right now in this interview. But that’s why I want to hear, what do you think about all this?
Fr. Matt Lowry:
This generation, they want to be heard. That’s why social media is so popular, because they’re saying things, and at home, they feel like their parents don’t want to listen. And there is a difference when you’re interrogating versus just simply you want to talk about it and they say not really. And you say “That’s okay. You don’t have to, but if you want to, I’d love to hear your thoughts on it.” And eventually you create a child that actually can stand on their own two legs and think rationally and articulate themselves. You’re actually helping them.
Trent Horn:
Because they’re getting practice telling you what they think and why they think that. And you’re just, you’re giving them practice putting the thoughts together. It’s like Legos, which I just actually bought my kids Legos to entertain them while I’m away, you know, doing all these great interviews with you. But yeah, it’s like, how do I put everything together in my mind so it makes sense
Fr. Matt Lowry:
And we’re not afraid of any question, right? Because they’ll ask really hard things. Yeah. Well mom, what about this? But we have the truth and so we have no fear. Ask the hard questions, let it come out and let’s get into it.
Trent Horn:
All right. Let’s transition over to Catholic college students themselves. Because I remember college, I had a lot of fun memories in college. A lot of those would be after life night when we would all go to Applebee’s, what did I get? Nachos Nuevos, and a strawberry lemonade. And I was still young enough that that didn’t just wreck me the next day. But I mean, we would do our youth nights together, but then also during the week, you know, go to adoration or go to mass and then play basketball at night or ultimate Frisbee in lot 59 in Arizona.
Fr. Matt Lowry:
A parking lot.
Trent Horn:
Yeah, in Arizona State University. But also I remember the temptations and the challenges in college also. So what is advice you would give like for students themselves? Like I’m going to go to college. How do I keep my faith strong when I’m going to go there?
Fr. Matt Lowry:
Well, when you start looking at colleges, look at the Newman Center or what other Catholic center or ministries are available to you, which is where parents and people can help too. They’re like, “Hey, do they have a Newman Center?” Just throw the question out and walk away. “Hey, did you have a chance to, oh, okay.” And then you can do your own research. But you go and you visit the Newman Center when you visit the college, or time it, where you can go to mass and then meet the priest or meet some of the staff members. Because the more connection we can make, the more likely it’s going to stick, whether that’s ourselves wanting that connection or our child, we want to get them connected.
Trent Horn:
And you can kind of tell if you look at different Newman Centers, like which one is on social media or at least has a website and is doing something. I mean, you guys are always doing stuff up at NAU. You have a calendar, you have speakers events and you let people know and you know how to reach the students. So they know to figure it out. I mean, I don’t know if you’re like doing TikTok dance commercials yet, but I don’t know if that’s the next step of the NAU Newman Center.
Fr. Matt Lowry:
We’ve done a few of those. Well, I mean the whole point of campus ministry is I know that most college students may not be looking for me, but I want them to find me. So I make myself findable. I make them trip over me, whether at the football game. I mean, they don’t literally trip, you know. “Sir, can you please get off the 50 yard line?” But on social media, I was doing marriage prep with this couple. They don’t go to mass. And she said, “Father, you keep showing up on my TikTok feed.” And I was like, “I’m sorry?” But I was so happy because she felt a connection.
Trent Horn:
Oh my gosh, how did I get there? But no, I think that that’s important to be able to reach out. And so just like to see what you’re picking. Especially when you’re choosing colleges, I guess my last question in this vein is what advice do you have once you’re you’re in college and you’re just trying to balance everything as a student and maybe you’re feeling overwhelmed by school, your boyfriend or your girlfriend. And you maybe feel like you’ve kind of slipped a little bit in your faith, like haven’t been to mass or, you got other stuff going on, you feel like people don’t understand. I don’t know if you have any words of encouragement there.
Fr. Matt Lowry:
The door’s always open to the Lord’s heart and maybe we need 20 minutes just to sit in the chapel and talk it out. And God, His arms are always open. And so that’s the invitation is to go. And even if it’s been a long time, as a priest, some of my favorite words are when’s someone sits down and says, “Father, it’s been a while.” It’s like, great. I’m glad you’re here. And so know that the Lord is there and we can always go.
Trent Horn:
Amen to that, father. Well, thank you so much for stopping by the Council of Trent podcast. I hope to make it up to NAU soon, one of these days to do a talk. I feel like it’s been a while, but it’s always fun to be able to come up.
Fr. Matt Lowry:
It’s always great to have you. Students love you.
Trent Horn:
Oh, it’s super fun. And I love just going and especially just going and talking to college students and like you said, like, I’ll do my talk, but I always tell the students. So my favorite part is QnA. Especially when people are invite non-Christian, non-Catholic students to be able to come. Actually, one of my favorite things to do on college campuses is I’ll do debates, because the non-Catholic non-Christian people come to that and then it’s like, hey, we’re going to have a party.
Trent Horn:
So if you, if you’re listening, by the way, if you’re at a Newman Center, I will come. I’ll find a way, if it’s a debate, I’ll find a way so that financially it will happen. Don’t stress about that. I always make debates happen at a university campus, Catholic, private, public, whatever. Because I go, do the debate, and then in the Newman Center, “We’re going to do after debate social, you want to come by?” And then that’s like you said, pre evangelization, ask questions, get interested and you kind of start the journey. So I love it, but I will be back soon. And thank you all for listening to this episode. If you like the content we have here, be sure to click subscribe. I’ll leave some links in the description below and definitely support as at trenthornpodcast.com. So thank you guys so much and I hope you have a very blessed day.
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