In this interview Trent sits down with Live Action founder Lila Rose to talk about her new book and how anyone can “fight for life.”
Welcome to The Council of Trent podcast, a production of Catholic Answers.
Trent Horn:
Hey, everyone. Welcome to The Council of Trent podcast. I’m your host, Catholic Answers apologist and speaker, Trent Horn. And I have with me today, Miss Lila Rose. Lila, welcome to the podcast.
Lila Rose:
Thanks for having me, Trent.
Trent Horn:
So we are here in San Francisco at the live action training. And so what are you trying to accomplish today? We’ve got about 80 people in the other ballroom. What’s the game plan?
Lila Rose:
Yeah. So we got a special group, you had to apply or be selected to apply. And it’s a really special group of activists from across the country who are being trained on how to end abortion in their communities. So it’s really exciting to see. We have people from every background, even political background, and they’re all extremely committed. So we’re doing in-depth training and the ideas changed San Francisco, changed California. Wherever you are, we can change it.
Trent Horn:
If you can change San Francisco, you could probably change anywhere.
Lila Rose:
Exactly. And that’s one of the reasons I love doing this year and we’ll be doing activism events in the city today and tomorrow, too.
Trent Horn:
That is bold because I mean, I moved to Texas six months ago [crosstalk 00:01:14]. I did. You have to crawl under the barbed wire fence to get out of California. So what I wanted to ask you about today is you have a new book out: Fighting for Life. So tell us about that book and about… I think there’s a lot of people they care obviously about… If you ask them, “Is abortion bad?” They’ll say, “Yeah, obviously.” Then you ask, “What are you doing about it?” And you just kind of get this pause or, “I definitely pray.” And that’s important, but I think sometimes feel a disconnect between hating what abortion is and then, “What do I do to fight this Goliath?”
Lila Rose:
Yeah. And I think It’s also realizing that we are in a battle right now. And there’s a lot of political language about battles and wars, but those that are just seeing what’s happened in our culture, whether it’s abortion, 60 million deaths since 1973. I mean, nothing can compare to that or what’s happening with even the transgender issue, children and how they’re being affected. Just the political or the social, I think, division that we’re seeing the breakdown of the family. Mental health has declined dramatically and it seems to decline every year, especially among certain vulnerable groups. It’s like depression…
Trent Horn:
The past year didn’t help.
Lila Rose:
Yeah, right. And then we have this pandemic that hits and all this controversy around how that’s been handled and the impact of it. So the book, Fighting for Life, is really the manual of what I’ve experienced, learned in the last 15 years, drawing in the best of activism, for how we make a change. I mean, we aren’t helpless, that’s the beauty of this, that we can make a difference wherever we are. And we are actually called to make a difference, that God has a specific purpose for each of our lives to make this world better. And so I walked through through 27 steps, both external…
Trent Horn:
It’s only 27 easy steps, and you can be an activist just like Lila Rose. 27 steps.
Lila Rose:
Well, they build on each other, and I’m still going through the steps. There’s a constant renewal of how we wake up each morning and do the best we can with the day that we’re given. So there’s three parts. One part is getting started. So just kind of getting out of your comfort zone to get involved in something that might seem controversial. Or maybe you’re in a rut. You’re just living your life, you’re trying to do your job, maybe support your family or go to school or whatever, but you have this tug on your heart.
Trent Horn:
You know what’s funny? That’s kind of like where I am right now. People think, “Why is Trent Horn like that? He does Catholic radio, he does all of this stuff.” But sometimes I feel like… I have three kids, you have children now. How many children do you have?
Lila Rose:
Well, I have three. One in heaven, one in the womb, and one at home.
Trent Horn:
Well, congratulations. But you see, especially as you start having kids, it’s like, wake up, you hit the ground running, someone threw up somewhere, you have to get them to school or you need to…
Lila Rose:
[inaudible 00:04:01] you’re throwing up.
Trent Horn:
When they do the theology of the body seminar for married couples, they don’t talk as much about the not as glamorous aspects of marriage. Somebody’s throwing up. And then you get into this… You go through the whole day, try to get everything done, and then you just collapse at the end of the day. And you’re like, “Well, where’s my energy to save the world?” So it sounds like you’re trying to give people practical steps, whoever’s listening, wherever they’re at in life, these are concrete things you can do right now.
Lila Rose:
Exactly, no matter your state in life. Whether you’re the stay at home mom, or you are the busy business person, or you’re the student, this is what you can do right now. But there’s two other parts, so the first is getting started, getting out of what a rut you might be in. Or maybe you’re not sure, in a discernment phase, where to start. And then the second one is overcoming. So persevering, because doing any work, any apostolic, any mission, starting any non-profit, any business, any mission, it’s going to take grit and perseverance. So tools for that.
Lila Rose:
And then the third piece is coming home. You mentioned you wake up, you spend your day with your kids. You’re like, “Okay, what did I accomplish?” When you go to bed. You actually accomplished a lot. And I know you know this. I know that this is a big passion of yours, is at the end of the day, what’s going to change the world? What is it? It is building strong and beautiful families. And that’s the quiet daily work that most people don’t really honor or recognize. I think it’s not really popular in our culture to do that, but that is…
Trent Horn:
I mean, if the family wasn’t wrecked, we wouldn’t have as many of the problems that we do. I mean, we have this weird thing now where married families with several children, it’s like an anomaly to people. It’s not the norm anymore.
Lila Rose:
Yes, exactly. And I think that’s part of the reason I think there’s so much dissatisfaction and unhappiness, because people are not living in these bonds of love that we’re made for. So there’s loneliness, there’s a sense of isolation, we’re unsettled, we’re restless. And I mean, obviously the pandemic really intensified that. And even if we’re in a relationship, if they’re not ordered relationships, if they’re kind of relationships of just sort of selfishness or what’s good for me in the moment, and they’re not really oriented towards some end game… I want to get you to heaven.
Lila Rose:
As Catholics, in our marriage, Joe and I were like, “Our number one, we want to get to heaven.” We want to get our kids to heaven, and we want to get to heaven, and we want to help as many other people on that path, too. So it’s a beautiful clarifying orientation. It’s like, there’s the purpose of it all. But if you don’t have clear purpose, even in your relationships, it leads to a lot of unsatisfaction, dissatisfaction. So the end game of the book is saying, “It’s a call to renew the foundations.” And that is the family. And that’s why it’s like, “Okay, if you are that stay-at-home mom, you’re doing the most important work in the world.”
Trent Horn:
Well, that reminds me. So my wife is hosting soon, a pro-life training for her friends. And I think it might be hard. Some people will think, “Well, I can’t. I’m not going to be out on the news, like Lyla Rose. I’m not on Catholic radio with podcasts like Trent Horn.” But I think there’s a virtue in taking a lot of small steps, that inviting five people over to read a pro-life book to talk about. Or to go to an abortion facility… Go for 15 minutes. 15 minutes is better than nothing. We took our kids on Good Friday, actually. And we have a five-year-old, three-year-old, newborn squirming around. But even just them just having… I mean, it’s hard to get the kids in the minivan and get out places, but to have a newborn baby and just standing. You don’t even have to talk to anybody, you just stand there with a newborn baby in front of an abortion facility. To me, that’s more powerful than the arguments I’m going to make.
Lila Rose:
Yeah, exactly. And I think inviting people into our homes… And my husband and I, everything’s kind of chaotic with work and starting our family and everything, but even just inviting people into your home and just living your life, but generously, openly, inviting people, being solicitous of people…
Trent Horn:
And I think part of you invite them into our home, especially if you have a family, it’s getting out of your comfort zone of, “Yeah, my house might be a mess. The kids are running around and left everything everywhere, but I just want to have a generous, full life and I want to bring other people into that.”
Lila Rose:
Right. And I think the emphasis should be for all of us sharing. Whatever good we have, try to share it with others. And I don’t just mean financial, but the love of your family, the beauty of your family, in relationship with neighbors or other people at your church or parish, or just other singles in your community who might be lonely, invite them over. Make your home, a place of chaotic beauty for the community. I mean, you mentioned being on the news or Catholic radio. I mean, these things have their value, but at the end of the day, people are most deeply impacted in relationship. And you know what your wife is doing to have her friends over to spend time with them to train or just to go deeper together. That’s really how society is built and sustained, doing stuff like that. So the ultimate message of Fighting for Life is do that. It’s back to the heart of the home, it’s back to the family, it’s back to that beautiful daily work. That is really what it’s all about in the end.
Trent Horn:
So where can people get a copy of the book and maybe what are some other resources you’d recommend or next steps you’d recommend for people?
Lila Rose:
So the book’s everywhere you get your books. Amazon.com is one place. You can also get at liveaction.org. And as far as resources are concerned, I mean, it depends on where you’re at in your life right now. Fighting for Life is a good overview. If you’re interested specifically in the pro-life fight and you want to get trained on how to be an apologist or how to get activated in your community, we have a program called Ambassadors. And so you can sign up for that at the liveaction.org website, and then you’ll also hear about opportunities like this training in San Francisco. I mean, you have a great book on apologetics, I know.
Trent Horn:
It’s been out there a bit. It might be time for a second edition, but I love giving that to people. And then even people just emailing it to them. I had somebody email me last night saying that a year ago they were really criticizing me on social media about abortion. And then I just sent them the book saying, “Well, here’s the book.” And they said, “You totally… It changed my mind.” So people are open. Some people think that you can’t change people’s minds with facts and reason, and you can, but you just have to be gracious and you got to give them time.
Lila Rose:
You’re so right about that and we should never forget that, that all the things that we’ve been given, the formation, the opportunities to learn the knowledge, we should never assume that other people have it already, and that’s why we should not judge. When people seem misled or ignorant or straight up wrong or bad, I mean, we can’t judge where they’ve been. We can obviously judge actions, but we don’t know their own heart. And that’s why at the end of the day, education is so key. It’s not enough in the pro-life fight, it’s a key, but the ultimate end game in pro-life fight, as well, besides building our own families is I think activism and taking responsibility for the abortion clinics in our community, working to shut them down. We’re focusing on that here in San Francisco today and tomorrow, but it’s all the above. It’s education, it’s building our families and it’s also taking responsibility and shutting down the abortion clinics in our communities.
Trent Horn:
Amen to that. So definitely get a copy of Fighting for Life. Go pray at an abortion facility, even if it’s 15 minutes, just go. You have 15 minutes to go and do that. I know I need to do that more. You can always carve out time, you won’t regret it. It’ll be better than just sitting down, watching Netflix or something like that. Get Fighting for Life and Persuasive Pro-life, if you want to grow in that. So Lila, thanks for coming on the podcast.
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