In this episode Trent sits down with Fr. Gregory Pine to talk about his new book on the one virtue that can help us balance our religious life and help us be less weird.
Welcome to the Counsel of Trent podcast, a production of Catholic Answers.
Trent Horn:
Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Counsel of Trent podcast. I’m your host, Catholic Answers apologist and speaker Trent Horn. And let me tell you, one thing that’s really hard being Catholic is when I have to interact with other Catholics that I feel like… They’re nice, holy people, but they’re also kind of weird. Maybe sometimes I’m weird, though. Maybe I’m throwing my weird rock in my weird glass house. If you live in a glass house, you’re probably weird. So today I want to talk about that. I want to talk about a little-known virtue that I think can help us to be less weird and help us to live a more fulfilled life, to be better evangelists… That is the virtue of prudence. And the guest I have on to talk about it today is perfect to talk about it. He’s recently completed a book on the virtue of prudence. His name is Father Gregory Pine. Father Pine, welcome to the Counsel of Trent podcast.
Fr. Gregory Pine:
Hi, thanks so much for having me. I love the intro. I’m excited at the prospect of becoming less weird.
Trent Horn:
Well, I was really excited when you told me you had written a book on this, written on the subject of prudence… A lot of people, they don’t understand prudence. They think, are you being a prude? That sounds like academicky gobbledygook. What does it matter? But to me, I think this actually relates deep down to a lot of things we personally struggle with. And yeah, I think that this is a big thing that in our pursuit of goods… I saw this a lot when I was in the pro-life movement and especially in the pro-life movement where you’re trying to fight for life, you’re fighting a very macabre evil like abortion, and the combination of all of that, you start to get kind of weird. I think it’s because it’s a very toxic thing you’re combating. And so you’re still trying to pursue the good, but you’re taking a wonky path to get to the good. It’s not very prudent. So tell us a little bit more about what you’ve been writing about and just help us to dive into the topic.
Fr. Gregory Pine:
Yeah, I think that maybe the best way… it’s not going to be the best way, but… the best way that I can think of at present of describing the virtue of prudence is, it’s the virtue that empowers you to live well; to choose well. And to live and to choose in such a way that you’re able to, yeah, pursue your happiness in a way that’s not just… Pursue your truth, but pursue your happiness in a way that fits with your relationships, with your friends and with your family, and contributes to the growth of those relationships and then especially with your relationship with the Lord. So I think about it as, it’s a virtue which helps you to begin to choose and does so in a kind of social and religious context. So basic idea being, you become who you ought to become by doing the thing that you were made to do with greater and greater freedom and confidence and certainty along the way. So, yeah.
Trent Horn:
So it seems like a lot of the virtues… Going back to Aristotle, we have the golden mean, right?
Fr. Gregory Pine:
Yep.
Trent Horn:
That the virtues are, we walk on the tightrope between two extremes. With temperance, you don’t want to be somebody who starves himself to death, but you also don’t want be a glutton that eats everything in sight. You’re always walking the tightrope in the middle there. Similar with courage; you don’t want to be a coward, but you don’t want to be an idiot who charges into dangerous things. So it seems like a prudence… We’re walking that tightrope and you seem to have highlighted two… I could see two false views that you’re walking the tightrope between. One would be, it doesn’t matter what you pick; any choice you make is fine. You do you; whatever. It’s very relativistic. But then the other extreme is to think, “Oh, if I’m going to do what God wants, there is only one choice that I can make and I’ve got to figure out what that choice is. And if I don’t, I’m in big, big trouble.” Would you say those are two extreme views on it?
Fr. Gregory Pine:
Yeah, yeah, no, that’s a really good characterization. I think that sometimes people think that God has our future in a well-packaged little vocation, kind of… What would you call it? Package; maybe I’ll just say package as a verb, package as a noun. He’s got a little vocation package and he’s withholding it from us until such time as we’ve, what, suffered enough or learned enough disastrous life lessons and then he is going to bestow it upon us. So it’s like… If life were like a geometry textbook, you’re working your way through page one and page two and you’re just dying. You’re like, “This is awful. The exterior angle theorem, I’m never going to make it to page seven.” And then at a certain point, once you’ve suffered enough through chapters one and two, God’s like, “Just skip to the answer key. No problem. Really, all of this was just pro forma, but you’ve showed that you’re committed. So I’m just going to give you the answers.”
Fr. Gregory Pine:
But I think that just… I don’t know if you would say misunderstands or misrepresents the way in which God really does place our lives in our hands so that we can make of them something beautiful. And so when you’re trying to make a decision and you ask, “What does God want?” On the one hand, you can say, God doesn’t care because God isn’t motivated by consequences in the way that we’re worried about consequences. But on the other hand, you can say God cares very much because God wants you to choose. He wants you to forge a path that is the fruit of your freedom and to do so for the good. But whether you get your hair cut today or a week from now, God doesn’t care. But also God wants you to experience the freedom of the sons of God. So that way you don’t agonize over the decision, nor you make all kinds of crazy off-the-cuff decisions because of social pressure or lack of sense of self; whatever it might be. So yeah. I think the way that you set it up is a… Yeah. It’s a great characterization.
Trent Horn:
Yeah. I think what’s difficult here is that people think, “Okay, God has a plan for me. And I’ve got to…” It’s almost like a mystery. I’ve got to pray hard enough and figure out what it is because otherwise, if I don’t follow the plan… Especially with big decisions, like who I’m going to marry, what job I’m going to choose, what vocation I’m going to be, a priest, religious, married, unmarried… And yeah, you can work yourself up worrying about whether you’re going to get the right one. It’s not like God has it as a test to make sure you… Like you say, “Oh, I got to make sure that I get it all right.” And so one way to look at it, I might think, see what you think, is that God wants us to do good, but just because something is good doesn’t mean we’re obligated to do it.
Trent Horn:
Because if you think about it, it’s impossible for me to pursue every good. It’s good for me to be an apologist. It’d also be good for me to be a firefighter or a priest or a doctor. But I’m not obligated to do all of those things. It’s impossible. I can’t do that. So there are many good… So I think it’s helpful, maybe I need to see what your thoughts are, throughout life… Sometimes we think of the moral life; we’re only called to say no to evil. It’s like, “Oh, I got to say no to evil, yes to good.” Well, actually, in order to live a prudent life, you have to say yes to many goods. If you say yes to too many goods, you’re going to be totally stressed out and go bonkers. What do you think?
Fr. Gregory Pine:
Yeah, no, I think there are a variety of good things on offer. And part of the drama of human life is coming to discern which good things are for you. And part of that process will be shouldering burdens that aren’t for you. Or maybe aren’t ideal for you. You’ve chosen them. You’ve shouldered them. So in a certain sense, they are for you. Like managing your calendar. Okay, different people have different ways of managing their calendar, but there are a lot of people for whom it’s the case that unless that time slot is blocked or already occupied, you just say yes, which is one way of going about your life. And we have different ways of explaining why we do that. Some people say, “Ah, I just can’t say no, I lack all boundaries,” or they might characterize it negatively.
Fr. Gregory Pine:
Other people might characterize it more positively; like, “Oh, yeah. I mean, I feel called to be generous with my time.” And yeah, I think that this is fitting or this is suitable. Okay. Well, if that’s your MO, if that’s your rationale for accepting or denying invitations, well, you’re just always going to be busy. And as a result of which, you’re always going to be bopping from one thing to the next. But that means that you won’t necessarily be as present to the seventh, eighth and ninth thing to which you commit that day. That’s a choice that you’ve made. You’ve chosen a variety of good things. Might it be better to say no to a couple of them? Perhaps. But you’re going to find that out in the process.
Fr. Gregory Pine:
And that’s one of the things I think is liberating about prudence, is that prudence is a virtue for the way. So we as human beings, we proceed towards heaven as the fruit of lots and lots and lots and lots of choices. So part of what it means to be virtuous as a human being is to have this kind of historical dimension. God doesn’t expect us to have become perfect yesterday. He’s given us a whole life precisely because proceeding towards our perfection is a kind of messy business and prudence accounts for that. Prudence takes that all under consideration and makes it to be good. So, yeah.
Trent Horn:
So this gives us a lot of freedom, then. We don’t have to worry that we’ve quote-unquote “married the wrong person,” or “we’ve chosen the wrong job” or “chosen the wrong vocation.” But we can understand that in some of our choices, it may not be the wrong person, but it’s a person we’ve chosen to marry, for example, that might have more challenges than other people, if we’d chosen to marry different people. Not like we made an error in God’s sight or disobeyed his will or something like that. I wouldn’t know what that’s like, because I’m married to someone who’s perfect. But I can metaphysically speculate about what it might be like to be in a position like that.
Trent Horn:
So I like you saying that it gives us this kind of freedom, but some people might say, “I don’t like this freedom. It’s scary to me.” So what are some practical tips that you might give to help people discern whether it’s a little decision or maybe it’s a big decision, whether I’m acting prudently in aiming for some kind of good? Whether I should say yes or maybe I should say no, even if it’s a good thing that I’m entertaining.
Fr. Gregory Pine:
Yeah. I would say one thing would be to avoid the freeze-frame approach to decision-making. Oftentimes we treat decisions like isolated instances and then we begin to think of our life as just passing from one isolated instance to the next. So we’re just constantly astonished that here is another very difficult decision that I have to make. And as a result of which, I’m going to experience all the same anguish, all of the same confusion, that I did last time. So it’s just like life becomes an endless series of these types of events. But I think it’s more helpful to think about in terms of character. Or to think about it in terms of your growth and virtue. The hope isn’t that you have crystalline clarity about each decision. The hope is that you just grow in boldness and certainty and in confidence as you approach those decisions.
Fr. Gregory Pine:
And then you can actually make this a criterion for decision making. So don’t so much ask, what’s the optimal, what’s the maximal, what’s the best decision to be made? You ask in a certain sense, who do I hope to be on the other side of this decision? How does this decision afford me an opportunity to grow in virtue, to become yet more perfectly the man whom God is calling me to be? And you might come to discover in the course of that discernment that there are more than one good options. In the sense that you could… You just graduated college. You could do an internship for two years, which gives you some life experience, which will help you to frame research questions if you go on to graduate school with a better sense of the practicalities involved. Or you could go right into graduate school.
Fr. Gregory Pine:
It depends on a variety of factors. Maybe there’s a global pandemic and applications to Duke’s philosophy program have increased threefold on account of the fact that everyone knows that… dot, dot, dot, whatever. You’re not responsible for all of the circumstances. You’re just responsible for choosing something that contributes to the glory of God, the salvation of your soul and the souls of those whom God has entrusted to your care. But oftentimes that’s more of a modest consideration than when you describe it in kind of grand terms. So…
Trent Horn:
So when we focus on exercising the virtue of prudence, we can get away from being stuck in, “Am I making the right decision?” to, “Am I making a good decision?” Because then you’re free. There’s lots of… There’s only one right decision, it can feel like, but there’s many good decisions. And if you are the person you want to be on the other end of it, then you’ve made a good one. Even if there’s another one that might be better, it’s sort of like the classic problem with the problem of evil. People say, why didn’t God make a world the best of all possible worlds? Well, there is no such thing. You could always make a world as better… with more and more goods. It’s kind of never ending. But do you do something that just is good in and of itself?
Trent Horn:
Let me switch back to what I had brought up earlier about weirdness, because this is something I’ve noticed while I always worry that I’m going to fall into it. It’s people who are… It’s hard for me to even say that they’re holy. I want to say they’re pious. It’s like they are always praying their rosary. They’re always at the adoration chapel. They’re always at daily mass. But they’re off-putting to others when they talk to them.
Trent Horn:
It’s almost like they can’t connect with people as on a minor end… Or even on a major end that… I’ve had cases of you ask someone, “Hey, can you come help me with this on Saturday?” And then they don’t show up because they say, “Oh, I just felt a sudden urge to be at the adoration chapel and I just kind of got caught up with everything.” It’s like, “Well, I really needed your help when I asked you for that.” And then the idea is that, well, it’s my problem because… “Oh, you’re going to blame me for choosing God over you?” It’s like, well, look, your piety’s a good thing, but there’s something still not quite right here. And I think it’s the lack of prudence, I think, factors into that a bit. Or am I just being selfish and adoration should come first?
Fr. Gregory Pine:
No, I think that’s… Yeah, your instincts are great. I think that maybe a helpful way to describe it is, prudence brings together the virtuous life. So when you’re baptized, you get all the virtues. Well, you get grace, you get virtues, you get the gifts of the Holy Spirit. So you’re just given an incredible gift. And that gift is for the perfecting of all of the aspects of your life. But it takes a while to be trained up in the use of those virtues. So it’s almost as if we’ve received an inheritance upon the death of a great-grandmother and we don’t even know what some of the curios are for. We don’t know how much they’re worth. We don’t know to what use we could put them or how we would display them in a cabinet that’s appropriate.
Fr. Gregory Pine:
It’s just like, there’s this abundance of riches, but we haven’t yet figured out how to go about putting it to use. And so part of our growing in the faith and our growing in the exercise of the faith is just that. And prudence is the virtue which oversees it. And there are virtues which govern the types of interactions that you’re describing. So I think here especially of those little virtues that fall under justice, which kind of make for a healthy and happy society… So like truth, you should tell other people the truth because if you lie to them, then they’re going to suspect you of lying and then no one’s going to trust you. And then things are going to fall apart. Or like liberality, St. Thomas says; just kind of basic generosity. Sure. You’ve got things, but things are for using.
Fr. Gregory Pine:
And I mean, using of things is for making of life… Making life better, as it were. Not just for you and your family, but for those with whom you share life in some way, shape or form. Simple stuff. But then another thing that he describes is gratitude. You’re like, “This…” I mean, barely qualifies as a virtue, right? It’s just like a simple thing that polite people know how to do. But politeness is a virtue. And I think that that’s something that we do without even recognizing it; is that we have certain human excellence, which is what we call virtues, and we assign them a moral value. And then other human excellences, which we don’t really think about as virtues, and we deprive them of their moral value.
Fr. Gregory Pine:
But for Aristotle, they’re all just virtues. So… I mean, not charity for Aristotle because he didn’t know about it, but charity is a virtue; the greatest thereof. But also like social facilities, social ease, politesse, the ability to conduct a conversation, to include people in a conversation who might be a little more shy, that’s a virtue. That perfects human character. That makes it so that you are good and act well. And I think prudence is going about the work of bringing all of these virtues together and helping you to exercise them at the time and place for which they’re called, or in which they’re called. So apart from not knowing which prepositions to use in certain places, I think that’s what I think.
Trent Horn:
Yeah. So it sounded like, imagine all the virtues are the toggles and switches on the board in an airplane; in a cockpit. Like you’ve got them all there. Those are all great to have. But if you don’t have a set of eyes that looks at all of them in relation to each other, it might be great, you might be focusing just like, “Hey, look at how straight my altimeter is. I’ve got the straightest altimeter in the world. My wings are perfectly level. Look, I mean, this is amazing. Look at how…” Or, well, that’s not the altimeter. The altimeter is your altitude. But I mean the horizon gauge. And it’s like, “Look,” but wait, you’re not looking at the altimeter. You’re gradually losing altitude. You’re not looking at another part of the panel that’s so important. You’re only focused on one part.
Trent Horn:
And I think that can show up, like you say, when we’re focused on some virtues and we don’t have that area of prudence. You brought up truth, for example; truth is a good. And we think, “Okay, I’m not going to lie,” or, “I’m not going to intentionally deceive other people.” But maybe you can comment on how prudence works its way in here in our day-to-day lives so that we know how to apply it in little things. For example, a prudent person might know when not to share a truth in a situation, because it might hurt themselves or others, which there it’s harder to determine because you think that telling the truth is good, but it may not always be good to do that. And is that where we need prudence to help figure that out?
Fr. Gregory Pine:
Yeah, no, you can think of different friends in your life… Say like something great happened. Say that you wrote a book and there’s a publishing house that you wanted to publish it and they accepted your manuscript and you’re really pleased. You’re going to want to share this news with other people because that’s just what you do with good news. You want to share it because you want to give vent to your excitement, but also include other people in it because that’s just a normal human instinct. But let’s say that one of your friends just had a manuscript rejected. You’re probably not going to bring that up. And when you do bring it up, you’re going to kind of insert it in such a way that it’s not highlighting the fact that yours was and his wasn’t. Okay?
Fr. Gregory Pine:
Or say you know somebody who… Yeah. What would be an alternate circumstance? Say you know somebody who’s maybe trying to get going, but they find it really difficult to compose. They find it really difficult to get those creative juices flowing. And so the fact that you’re able to do that to them is a kind of affront. You might also… If you say, “Hey, I got this manuscript accepted and I have a good sense for the process now, how to go about it, how to get it…” Blah, blah, blah. So I’d be like, “I’m available if you ever want to work on yours together at some point. We could do a little workshop.” But you’re thinking, “How do I put this in a way that it’s not condescending or in a way that sounds…?”
Fr. Gregory Pine:
So you’re taking into account all of these different factors, given your audience. And I think that, yeah, prudence is the virtue which sees; it kind of sees the landscape like a battlefield general who’s who’s on the hill behind his army. I think of Napoleon in that one battle, Borodino, which is described in War and Peace. All right. And so he’s able to marshal his troops because he has this provident vision. So too with prudence and the way in which we live our everyday life.
Trent Horn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). So it’s how we put it all together to be able to achieve that good. Because there’s all different sorts of paths that we’d be able to take. Another point I want to raise or ask you about, it seems like in the gospels, I can think of a few circumstances where it seems like Jesus is very concerned about the disciples and even us today, future believers, lacking in prudence. I think about when he says how the children of the kingdom are not as cunning as the sons of this world. Or when he says in Matthew 10:16… This is the one I think is really about prudence: “Be as gentle as doves, but as wise as serpents.” That’s one of my favorite sayings of Jesus’s, honestly, because it throws you for a loop. You would think Jesus just wants us to be like gentle bunny rabbits, but they get eaten.
Trent Horn:
You don’t want to be evil like snakes. Because they think, the garden, it was a serpent, like why would Jesus want us to be like a serpent? He’s saying, “Well, just be as smart as them, but don’t act like them completely.” So he’s emphasizing the importance of gentleness, meekness, mildness, compassion… But not being a dumb-dumb about it and not letting people take advantage of you while you’re still able to be gentle to others. So does it seem like Jesus is concerned with us not just about being pious and having these other virtues, but in exercising prudence?
Fr. Gregory Pine:
Yeah. And I think that… We experience this or we kind of think through this on a daily basis. So again, thinking of your life, you are an apologist, you have different networks, as it were, through which you publish and through which you promote your work. It’s not enough for you to say, “I’m saying true things and whoever shows up shows up.” Because if you’re going to give a parish mission, for instance, in San Diego, California, you’re going to do some work promoting that event so as to ensure that there are people there. Not just because you want people there, because you would feel silly if there weren’t, but in the sense that you have something to say, and so it’s for you to ensure that there are people to hear what is said.
Fr. Gregory Pine:
I once talked to a guy who worked in Hollywood. And he said, “For every dollar that Hollywood spends making a movie, they spend two promoting it.” Which I think is what it means to be crafty as a serpent. So it’s like, okay, if you’re creating media or if you’re creating content, you’re going to know something about YouTube thumbnails. And you’re going to know about how to title your videos. And you’re going to know about SEO. You’re going to know how to tag it. You’re going to know how to promote it on social media because it matters. It matters. And it’s not enough to say, “It’s a good thing. The Lord is pleased.” I mean, okay. That’s a start, but-
Trent Horn:
I think that’s true. There’s a lot of people that’ll approach me or other people who will say, “I’ve got this great thing I know God wants me to do.” Maybe he does. And then they think, because God wants me to do it, if I just do it, it will succeed. But they haven’t taken that far-back step to prudently ascertain, well, will this succeed? What are the chances of it succeeding? What do I have to do to make it possible? Do I have enough resources to make it possible? It’s like when Jesus said, “When a man builds a tower, does he not count the cost first?” I think a lot of people, they’ll jump into things… I have known people who have tried to do full-time apologetics work like I do. And they have bankrupted their families because they did not count the cost and think that they thought that they would be able to support themselves in doing it and they failed. And they didn’t fail because of a crazy unforeseen circumstance.
Trent Horn:
Sometimes we could prudently make the best decision and God sends a meteor in. I mean, you can only plan so well. But other times you could say, “Any other reasonable person would’ve thought ahead. That’s not a great idea.” And it seems like we want to be in a position… So help me walk the path here… We don’t want to… Because Jesus also says… he says, “Don’t worry about tomorrow. Today’s has enough evils.” In the sense that if we’re obsessed with planning so much, that we control every contingency, we’re not leaving any room for God. But at the same time, you don’t want to just imagine God let everything on autopilot and you don’t have to do anything. So once again, is it about finding that balance?
Fr. Gregory Pine:
Yeah, no, I think God exercises his Providence through our use of prudence. So God is providing, but he is providing through our free agency. He gives us what we need, but he also gives us, as it were, the means to discern what it is that we need and to go about securing what it is that we need. So when it comes to making a decision that concerns the future, prudence is not just saying, “Whoa, whoa, whoa, pump the brakes. This might not be prudent at this juncture.” It’s not just like caution or circumspection. Prudence may also entail risk-taking. Because at a certain point, if what you really love you’re doing as a part-time job and you’re able to do it for 15 hours, for 20 hours, for 25 hours a week, but then it’s just… it’s really hurting your full-time employment and your family and other commitments, at a certain point, you’re going to have to cut loose. And that’s scary.
Fr. Gregory Pine:
That’s a risk, right? Because you go from having benefits and from having healthcare to not with the hope that you can grow that additional 15 hours and then find whatever, like a pied-à-terre. So there are going to be risks entailed. And so prudence isn’t just about deliberating endlessly until such time as you decide not to do the risky thing. Prudence means thinking through, in order to, like you said, choose a good thing, to pursue a prudent course, but to provide for it. To do what remains in order to provide for it. So St. Thomas will talk about the different parts of prudence and he says it entails docility. You should be having conversations with people who have been through it before; who are wise, are seasoned. Or it entails memory; you should consult your experience, which means you have to have had experiences before. So it’s not just about thinking in like a sensory deprivation vat and then eventually making a choice at the age of 57. It means living. But [crosstalk 00:26:00]-
Trent Horn:
It reminds me of the book of Proverbs, Proverbs 15:22: “Plans fail for lack of counsel, but with many advisors, they succeed.” And so do you think that… To just wrap it up here, when we’re exercising prudence, this is actually one of the virtues that benefits well… you were touching on this here… from interactions with others to bounce ideas off of, to acquire knowledge we didn’t have previously. When some people ask me, “Should I be an apologist?” like do this full time, I’ll say to them, “Well, do you… When you start, it’s like, does it bless God, bless kingdom?” “Well, yeah.” “Do you enjoy it?” “Yeah.” And you’ll go through the steps to discern and then I’ll ask, “Do other people genuinely and freely affirm that you are successful at this?” Because I think that’s helpful to bring in other people.
Trent Horn:
And that’s where prudent comes back at us. Because I think sometimes we are a detriment to others where we blindly praise people simply because we don’t want to hurt their feelings. And then that’s where we have to use prudence to let people know that it’s valuable or praiseworthy what you are doing, but it may not be the best use of your time. Notice there, that’s my prudent way of saying, “You probably shouldn’t do this. You’re not good at it.” That would be imprudent to bluntly tell someone. It would really hurt their feelings. But to learn how to give someone counsel without unduly hurting their feelings, we’re back to square one on prudence. Right?
Fr. Gregory Pine:
Yeah. No, for sure. And I think that it’s difficult, especially in the year 2022, because it’s just a fragile time. It’s an easily-triggered time. It’s an easily-disconcerted time. And so we feel like we have to couch everything in such a way that it’s most easily digested or received, which is a good sensitivity insofar as, yeah, the thing is received in the mode of the receiver and you can’t just speak into the void and leave it to others to interpret your communication in the best possible light. We’re responsible, actually, for some of the reception.
Fr. Gregory Pine:
But yeah, we need to find ways in which to be honest with each other. And I think that maybe that’s an occasion for us to say, okay, identify a couple of your friends whom you can rely upon to be honest with you, and to do it in a way that’s genuine and sincere, but also firm and strong and give them permission. Maybe empower some of those who are close to you just to be a little more frank, a little more forward, if you suspect that you’re drifting off into la-la land. Because prudence is always in touch with the real, because only the real bears grace. Only the real in fact bears fruit. Yeah. So yeah. That’s good.
Trent Horn:
Well, thank you so much for being on with us, Father Pine. Where can people go to learn more about your book?
Fr. Gregory Pine:
Yes. So it’s published through Our Sunday Visitor and it’s available through Amazon.com and it’s called Prudence: Choose Confidently, Live Boldly. So and it’ll be available to ship, I think, on April 18th, but until such time, it’s available for preorder. So thanks.
Trent Horn:
Well, definitely it’d be prudent for you to preorder it because then you won’t have to think about it later and it will arrive. Because you might forget in the meantime, up till April. So maybe it’s very prudent to just preorder and have that sitting and ready and waiting for you. Prudent. So it’s called… Prudence is the main title?
Fr. Gregory Pine:
That’s right. Yep.
Trent Horn:
Prudence is the main title by Father Gregory Pine. Published by Our Sunday Visitor. Definitely go and check it out. Father Pine, thanks for being on the Counsel of Trent podcast.
Fr. Gregory Pine:
Hey, thanks so much for having me. Cheers.
Trent Horn:
Absolutely. And thank you guys for listening. Definitely check out Father Pine’s new book on prudence when it comes out and definitely consider supporting us so we can continue to reach people. Go to visit trenthornpodcast.com. Thank you guys so much and I hope you have a very blessed day.
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