Recently there has been controversy over who can and can’t receive communion. Msgr. Eugene Morris joins us to help clarify this important question and gives us the proper parameters when knowing who can and cannot receive communion.
Cy Kellett:
Hello, and welcome to Focus, the Catholic Answers podcast for living, understanding, and defending Your Catholic faith. Today we talk about why some people, or maybe all people at some time, I don’t know how to quite how to put it, are excluded from receiving the Eucharist in the Catholic Church. Many people are deeply offended by this. Many within the church, many outside of the church see that as inconsistent with the generosity of Christ and the openness of the church to the whole world. So why is the Sacrament exclusive at some times and in some situations of our lives?
To help us talk about that, how do you describe Monsignor Eugene Morris? First of all, if you ever get the chance to go to Rome with him, go to Rome with him. All right? Or anywhere else. He’s an absolutely delightful travel companion on a wonderful chaplain for whatever pilgrimage you might be doing. He’s been a priest of the Archdiocese of St. Louis since 1996, served in all kinds of academic, and administrative, and pastoral positions since then, and he’s a radio guy doing radio in Ohio, and on Relevant Radio, and around the world, and Monsignor Eugene Morris, thank you for being with us.
Msgr. Eugene Morris:
Cy, it’s good to be here as always, good to be able to talk about one of my favorite topics, the Most Holy Eucharist.
Cy Kellett:
Yes. Okay. So the Most Holy Eucharist is, I mean, I almost hate to say it, but it’s a point of intense controversy. It is not the point of the peace of the church right now, of the overflowing charity of the church right now. It’s a point of contention between us.
Msgr. Eugene Morris:
It is, and I can confess both understanding why, and then at the same time, not understanding why. It seems to be a both/and, and we were talking a little bit about the catechism describes Eucharist as the source in the summit, and when you think of the Eucharist in those terms, which is how the church does, then we understand both why for so many people it is kind of this neuralgic issue, and why for the same number of people, they’re very serious about making sure we protect the dignity, integrity, authenticity of what it is we believe, how we actually worship, and who is actually able to receive. So I think sometimes the energy… No, actually not sometimes. I believe the energy comes from the fact that whether people believe or not, they actually do believe in the power of the Eucharist, and they understand what it means to be allowed to receive the Eucharist, and the implications of not being allowed to receive the Eucharist.
Cy Kellett:
Okay. All right. Now, I mean, I suppose all of us are excluded sometimes from the Eucharist, that is I haven’t kept the fast.
Msgr. Eugene Morris:
Correct.
Cy Kellett:
So I show up at a mass, and I haven’t kept the fast, or I have some troubling sin that I need to go to confession for. It’s a grave manner, so I just need to go to confession for. So it does seem to me that it’s exclusive, but that exclusivity is inclusive of all of us. Do you see what I’m saying?
Msgr. Eugene Morris:
Correct. I do. That’s a beautiful way of describing it, and I would say that the only person who is never excluded from the reception of Holy Communion is the priest who’s actually offering that mass, because regardless of the sins for which he is guilty, he still has to receive Holy Communion. He has to complete the sacrifice, and the completion of the sacrifice is by consuming it, and in the holy sacrifice of the mass, the consummation, the consuming of the sacrifice comes through receiving our Lord’s body and our Lord’s blood. Everybody else, as you rightly point out, at one time or another may either be excluded by state in life, so everybody before the age of first Holy Communion, they can’t go.
Cy Kellett:
Oh, yeah.
Msgr. Eugene Morris:
So it isn’t just excluded because you’ve done something wrong of sin or the state in your life may prohibit you from doing it. There also is the very venerable tradition of people actually choosing to refrain from receiving, either in order to increase their devotion and love for our eucharistic Lord, to better prepare them for when they actually do receive again. So this understanding that every time we go to mass, we should expect to and then be able to receive the Most Holy Eucharist has never been a part of the church’s understanding of one’s participation in the holy sacrifice.
Cy Kellett:
Well, yeah, and I mean, I grew up in a kind of bicultural place. Here in southern California, you have Spanish masses with lots of Central American Mexican people at the mass, and then you have English language masses, and it’s very noticeable to every single Catholic in southern California that one culture everybody goes to Communion, and the other culture, not everybody goes, because matter of fact, there’s kind of for an Anglo at a Mexican mass, for example, you can feel kind of uncomfortable like, “Why are so few people going to receive Communion?”
Msgr. Eugene Morris:
Correct. And again, as you say, depending on where you’re from culturally. So my current job is I’m the rector of our traditional Latin mass community, and it’s more notable during weekday masses because there are fewer people, but even on Sunday, there are a number of people who simply don’t get out of the pew for Holy Communion, and I’ve encouraged people actually if they’re not ready to go for whatever reason, they’re not prepared, don’t feel bad, because no one should assume anything about your state of your soul simply because you’ve chosen not to go to Holy Communion. You may have come to mass late, or maybe you were there early, but you’ve been distracted through all a mass. You’ve got 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 kids, which is not uncommon for my people, and you’ve spent the whole of mass, including the cannon, corralling your children, and you’re simply not prepared to receive.
You still have gone to holy mass. You’ve fulfilled your obligation, and you’ve made yourself open to the graces that one can receive by participating in the holy sacrifice. Go ahead, please.
Cy Kellett:
No, no, that makes perfect sense to me, but I think there’s a certain reason. Well, first of all, because we consume the Eucharist, it does seem to me that being a consumerist society as changes are… That is we are mass consumers, and we just don’t think anybody should ever get in between us and consuming what we want to consume.
Msgr. Eugene Morris:
Yeah. There is the expectation now that every time we go to mass, we should get something. We should get something out of it, meaning the homily should be relevant, should speak immediately to my situation at that moment, and then of course, everybody queues up to go to Holy Communion, so I should get something. This has led to… And again, I’m not opposed to it, so I know this might get me in trouble, but this tendency that has developed in the last 30, 40 years of everybody coming up to the rail or coming up in the Communion line, and if you’re not going to receive, you get a blessing.
Okay, well, I mean, I guess that’s not a bad thing. Nothing wrong with getting a blessing, but part of that I think stems from this expectation that when I go, I should be able to get up and go get something, whether it’s our Lord or whether it’s a blessing as opposed to… No, there have been for a good chunk of the church’s history lots of people, the majority that may not actually have presented themselves for Holy Communion, and everybody gets a blessing at the end of mass, so no one is being they feel excluded from receiving the blessings and the graces of the holy sacrifice.
Cy Kellett:
But maybe you could just help us then with who is excluded, and then we’ll talk a bit about, if it’s all right with you, some of the critiques of that policy, like we’re getting even from quite venerable leaders of the church public statements that there should be more widespread reception, or even things where people are saying things like, “All the baptized should receive Communion, should be just welcomed to receive Communion.” So who you talked about those who are too young, those who are not prepared. We mentioned not keeping the fast, but what about somebody who wants to go to Communion and the church says, “No,” not the person says, “No,” themselves, but the church says, “No, this is not the time for you to come to Communion.”
Msgr. Eugene Morris:
If I may, before I would answer that directly, I would go back to or I guess I would start with just a clear articulation of what we believe the Eucharist is, who is present there, and what the act of receiving actually means, because that’s the context then for understanding why people might be excluded by the church from actually receiving. So the Eucharist is the body, blood, soul, and divinity of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The holy sacrifice of the mass is the recapitulation, the reenactment of the bloody sacrifice of calvary in an unbloody manner, and the act of receiving Holy Communion by its very name clearly expects that the one receiving is in Communion with the whole reality that is made present by the reality of our Lord present in the Eucharist.
So if I’m going to receive Christ, then I must accept Christ, not as I have decided he is, but as the church, as his spouse has articulated who he actually is, and in truth it means everything about Christ. So again, you don’t get to pick and choose what aspects of the Christian dispensation kind of suit you. It really is all or nothing, and so when we look at who is excluded, let’s say, for example, our separated brethren, the Protestants from different ecclesial communions. They believe in Christ, obviously. They are called Christians. They by and large share most of the same tenants that we do as Catholics, and yet it’s very clear that they should not present themselves for Holy Communion, nor would we as a matter of fact receive Holy Communion if we were present at a Protestant church for a particular service for whatever reason. And the reason for that is not because we’re saying, “No,” to something or keeping someone from something. It’s because we’re going back to a positive affirmation of what it is that we believe.
Communion is about communion. Receiving Communion is about communio. It’s about being united around the mystery of Christ, and what the church teaches and believes about him, and all the things that prescind from faith in Christ and the teachings of Holy Mother Church. If you are not in support of those in any way, shape, or form, then you are excluded from receiving Communion because de facto you are not in communion, and to receive when you are not in communion goes against the very nature it seems to me of what you’re doing. My question oftentimes is why would people want to receive something, in this case someone, when they know that they’re actually not in communion with that person or that reality? Does that make sense?
Cy Kellett:
It does make sense. Yeah. I think many people, Monsignor, would be like, “Well, just because I don’t follow the church’s rules doesn’t mean I’m not in community.” They have a kind of confidence in themselves to be the arbiter of that over against the church being the arbiter of it.
Msgr. Eugene Morris:
Very much so, and therein lies the difficulty of the situation in which we find ourselves. So I think the reaction of so many people to the church’s teachings about excluding, for example, politicians who are maybe baptized Catholics but don’t hold to all the tenants of the Catholic faith, you even have other people, other politicians, for example, angry on their behalf. They’re not Catholic. They’re just angry, and I think their anger comes from who are you to the church or anybody? Who are you to tell me what to do, what I can and cannot do? Well, the answer to that question is, “She’s the church, and so of course she can, like any other organization, any other institution has the freedom, and actually the right, and really the responsibility to articulate what are the basic requirements from membership in this particular organization.” And one of the aspects of membership in this organization that is the Roman Catholic Church, if you want to conceptualize it in that manner, is when one is coming to Holy Communion, one must adhere to the fullness of the faith.
One other thought, and again, I would draw the distinction this doesn’t mean that everyone who is receiving a Communion is free from sin. That’s not what we’re saying. They might be sinful people. Actually, they are sinful people. They might be in a state of sin and unaware of that. I don’t know the disposition in that regard, but certainly, and again, let’s go back to the example I alluded to before of politicians who are baptized Catholics, but don’t adhere, those politicians to a man or a woman are on public record for holding positions that are antithetical to the truth of the faith.
So it’s not me having to guess the nature of a person’s soul. I don’t have to divine what they’re thinking. I know what they’re thinking. They’ve told me what they’re thinking. They’ve campaigned on what they’re thinking, and so with all of this objective criteria, I can say, “Well, you’re free to campaign on that. You’re free to advocate that. What you are not free to do is to continue to advocate that and at the same time claim that you’re a Catholic in good standing, who is then able to present himself or herself for the reception of Holy Communion.”
Cy Kellett:
One of the most famous examples of that in American history was I think in the 1950s or maybe sixties when the Archbishop in New Orleans integrated the schools.
Msgr. Eugene Morris:
Yes.
Cy Kellett:
And then there were people who said, “No, we won’t. We refuse. We will not integrate the schools.” And the archbishop said, “You can’t come to Communion then.”
Msgr. Eugene Morris:
Correct.
Cy Kellett:
I’m going to be honest with you, I mean, it seems to me most people look at that and go, “Yeah, okay,” because almost everybody agrees that’s that’s wrong, but in a certain sense, we can all agree because it’s in the past tense that we don’t segregate schools anymore in the United States, or at least we allegedly don’t.
Msgr. Eugene Morris:
Right. Right.
Cy Kellett:
But the difference between that and say advocacy for abortion, which is just as obviously a moral evil is that it’s an ongoing controversy. That’s the only difference is that people don’t want it because it’s an ongoing controversy, and they want the church to stay out of this and let them have their way on it.
Msgr. Eugene Morris:
Yeah, and I think it was Archbishop Rummel who excommunicated Catholics who didn’t, and I believe Cardinal Ritter did the same thing here in St. Louis when he integrated the schools, basically saying, “If you’re not on board with this, then you’re not Catholic.”
Cy Kellett:
Oh.
Msgr. Eugene Morris:
And in that regard, one could even make an argument of the two… And again, I don’t want to get too far field into this, but one could make an argument that of the two issues, segregated schools and the reality of abortion, abortion is a much more egregious and offensive sin that cries to heaven. I’m not at all advocating segregation, racial injustice, anything of that nature, obviously, but there’s a whole kind of sociological phenomena attached to that, whereas the very nature of abortion is the destruction of innocent life in its most innocent stage at its most innocent moment. There’s another part of this too, where the simple fact is those who advocate it, who are also professing at the same time of being Catholic, actually believe, I think, not only in the right to abortion, which is nonsensical to me, but somehow believe in the legitimacy of abortion, because if you take the position, “Well, I’m a representative of a larger segment of a population, therefore, I have to advocate this,” let’s go back then to the desegregation.
If your district or your parish in New Orleans that you represented was overwhelmingly for segregation, and you weren’t for that, you would’ve certainly either wouldn’t have run in that district because you know wouldn’t have won, or you would’ve been working for desegregation, and we know throughout the history of desegregation there were politicians who lost their positions in Congress at the local and national level because they were advocating positions against their constituencies. So we’ve had that throughout the whole history where representatives have worked to move their people in a healthy moral direction. So really it’s kind of a false position to say, “Well, I have to represent my constituencies, therefore, I’m personally opposed to the killing of innocent life, but I’m willing to allow other people to have the freedom to do that.” That’s not even philosophically tenable.
Cy Kellett:
No.
Msgr. Eugene Morris:
And so then you apply that then to, “I’m going to present myself for Holy Communion,” how do you do that? If you’re going to have the integrity to stand up and say, “I’m going to support my constituencies,” then also have the integrity to stand up and say, “I know I can’t continue to call myself Catholic. I know I shouldn’t present myself for Holy Communion.”
Cy Kellett:
Right. And that does not seem that terribly complicated, but the Archbishop of San Francisco, Archbishop Cordileone, went through a kind of process with the Speaker of the House, no longer speaker of the House, but for a long time Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, where he, one assumes, privately reached out to her, but he doesn’t say that, but then also asked people to pray and fast for her. He sent her roses to try to… I don’t remember frankly the Archbishop of New Orleans sending any of the segregationist roses.
Msgr. Eugene Morris:
Exactly.
Cy Kellett:
I think the Archbishop seems to have extended himself here in ways that maybe that go beyond the requirements of justice, but in any case, ultimately he said, “No, you can’t present yourself for Communion.” This is outrageous to many people. Do you find it outrageous?
Msgr. Eugene Morris:
No, it makes perfect sense. And as you say, the extent to which Archbishop Cordileone, I know there have been other bishops throughout this country who have met with their various representatives, or senators, legislators in any capacity who have advocated for abortion while at the same time claiming to be Catholic, have met privately, have met publicly, have gone through great lengths to have a conversation with them, to move them certainly from their position, but if not, then at least to help them understand that, and the fact that people then find it outrageous that a Catholic bishop would at the conclusion of what might be maybe a year’s worth of conversations would come to the very reasonable conclusion, “This individual is no longer capable of presenting themselves for Holy Communion.” That should seem reasonable.
It should seem intelligible, and actually everybody should be a applauding any bishop who does that because he’s being a man of integrity. He’s being a true shepherd. I don’t have to like him to appreciate and support the fact that he’s a man of conviction, and he’s living that conviction. Now, that would seem to me what we want for any of our leaders, if they be men and women of conviction. So I don’t understand where all of the animus and the vitriol all comes from when a bishop will reiterate yet again what the church’s teaching is.
Cy Kellett:
I mean, but people for years… I even remember as a child, my mother, the Boston Irish Catholic mother, “So why is Ted Kennedy still allowed to go to Communion?” So this is a debate we had. It’s not like it started with Nancy Pelosi.
Msgr. Eugene Morris:
No.
Cy Kellett:
The thing that’s now the current thing then is not about the public scandal of the politician, which you’ve explained to us, but is about what sometimes is now referred to even by church leaders as the church’s obsession with sex. I don’t personally believe that, but people who are unmarried but in cohabiting sexual relationships, people who are in gay or lesbian sexual relationships, people who are divorced, and not annulled, but divorced and remarried in sexual relationships. So I think there’s a growing sense of the mercy of Jesus would be, “Look, let’s not keep these people from communion.” And we can’t make the argument so much, I don’t think, but maybe we can of a kind of gross public politics level scandal. So what’s the argument for saying to someone who’s cohabiting, for example, with someone with whom they’re not married, say, “No, don’t present yourself for Communion.” Why do that?
Msgr. Eugene Morris:
I would say that in all three of those instances, while the level of scandal doesn’t rise to a national or local level in the same way as a politician, there still is scandal nonetheless in the sense that people in those people’s lives know what it is that they are doing, and know how they’re living their lives. For those people then to in cohabitating situations, in same sex relationships, divorce, remarried without a annulment, people know, and if you’re a serious Catholic, and your brother who’s divorced and remarried is also presenting himself for Holy Communion, it’s a source of scandal. It creates confusion.
Cy Kellett:
Oh, yeah.
Msgr. Eugene Morris:
What does this mean then? If he’s able to do it, then I’m able to, and what’s the ramification of that? Then anybody in any sin at all can go to Holy Communion.
Cy Kellett:
Sure.
Msgr. Eugene Morris:
So even those people who are otherwise in regular situations but might be guilty of some type of serious sin, whether it be sins against purity, whether they’ve stolen something, whatever commandment they may have violated, and maybe nobody knows, but since what we’re saying by allowing these other people to go to Holy Communion is that you get to decide if you go to Holy Communion or not, the individual gets to make the decision as to whether or not the sins for which he’s guilty would preclude him from Holy Communion, and looking at the activities of others, the answer is going to be, “No. They get to go. Why can’t I go? And since my sin is private, and I’m the only one who knows my sin, there’s no scandal for me at all because no one knows my sins.”
So the level, the issue of scandal… And again, this I think is a fault of the teaching authority of the church in not better explaining it. The scandal isn’t just that which is known to everybody. Scandal is when it’s known to anybody that it might create and the difficulty that it might cause. So I would say in those instances, there is the potential of scandal as well, but then let’s go further. Let’s simply say someone in a same sex relationship who lives that way out of the public eye, and maybe doesn’t even bring their partner to church on Sunday, so it’s a single man or a single woman in the pew by themselves, and nobody knows what they’re up to, and what they’re doing. Why should that person then refrain? Why are they excluded from Holy Communion?
For the same reason that everybody who is guilty of serious sin is excluded from Holy Communion. So there is certainly the level of scandal at any public manifestation, and then there is the awareness that there are sins that automatically put us outside of Communion by virtue of the seriousness of those sins. Any violation of sexuality, of human sexuality, human dignity in that regard would be. It’s the same way with the cohabitating couple, and again, part of I think what we talked about earlier, part of what people bristle against is anybody making a judgment about someone else’s life in the manner that they’re actually living it. So they’re bothered by the fact that we would exclude, but they’re really bothered by the fact that in the 21st century, the church has the temerity to continue to stand up and demand people live authentic, integral lives. Who do you think you are demanding this from people?
Cy Kellett:
And I think that is exactly right and that, “Who do you think you are,” it does seem to me to be connected to a sense that it’s not really possible for people to be transformed in Christ, that what you’re asking is the impossible. If I have, I don’t know, a pornography addiction, or a gambling addiction, or I am attracted to people of my own sex, these are just conditions that people have, and Jesus doesn’t… We don’t see them transformed by… I honestly think that there’s a kind of lack of faith in the transformative power of the Lord himself.
Msgr. Eugene Morris:
I would agree wholeheartedly with that, and I have said that for years that one of the really profound implications of all of these various scandals as they have played themselves out is that it’s a denial of the power of grace. People don’t believe in the ability of grace to transform. Therefore, particularly when it comes to sexual sins, when it comes to I love this person. Okay. I mean, I’m not going to argue that necessarily, although it’s a disordered love when we’re talking about same sex attraction, but even in cohabitation, we love each other. Okay, great. Good that you love each other.
Rely then in that love on the grace of God to give you the ability to live chaste lives until you were married as husband and wife, and as a kind of a corollary, maybe a ancillary to this, I think of the number of couples that I know, either because I’ve worked with them or I know of them, who before all of this kind of licentiousness that’s permeated the life of the church were in irregular marriages waiting for annulments. They lived as brother and sister. They forwent sexual relationships because they were trying to do the right thing, and one couple expressed to me when it was becoming clear the church was seemingly moving away from that how very profoundly hurt they were by having tried and succeeded in doing what the church asked, and now only to find out that, well, [inaudible 00:27:35] it doesn’t really matter, that the church herself seems to be denying, as you say, denying the power of grace. God can transform us, because if he can’t, then what are we doing?
Cy Kellett:
Amen. Right.
Msgr. Eugene Morris:
Why are we bothering you with this?
Cy Kellett:
Right, yes. Right. What are we doing? If we don’t believe that that Christ comes as a healer, and a teacher, and a savior, what is the point of all of this?
Msgr. Eugene Morris:
Correct. And that’s not a rhetorical question. I think people have to ask themselves that. Do you actually believe in the centrality of the uniqueness of what Christ accomplished, and how that continues to work itself out in the life of the church? So the church continues to be the instrument by which the salvific work of Christ is made efficacious in this world today it’s applied to us, so the merits of the cross are applied to us here and now, and so that grace can do something to me, and I believe that. If you believe that, you’re going to live in rightly, which means if I’m in irregular situation, and I’m struggling with something, I call upon the grace of God, and he actually can assist me. But then you have the church basically backing off from that saying, “Well, we’re being merciful because we don’t really believe people can do this,” or, “Yeah, go ahead and try, but wink, wink, nod, nod. It’s not real. The Lord really doesn’t.”
I mean, if you listen to the language, it sounds like, and again, I don’t want to be hyperbolic, but it sounds like Satan when he spoke to Eve or he spoke to Adam, “Did God really mean for you not to eat from this tree?” Well, yes, that’s exactly what he said. That’s exactly what he meant, and I’m not going to do it, but Adam and Eve obviously did, and so does God really mean for you to wait to have sex until your married? Yes, God actually believes that, and he will give you the grace to achieve that, as opposed to allowing some lie to be whispered into your ear that, “Well, God really doesn’t expect you to. He says that, but that’s not really what he means,” or, “Since God really loves you, he’s going to let you do whatever you want, and he’s going to end up forgiving you.” That’s a chance I’m not willing to take.
Cy Kellett:
Right. The question is, “Will I be disposed to receive that forgiveness when it comes if I just let myself go like that? What’s going to happen to me?”
Msgr. Eugene Morris:
That’s correct.
Cy Kellett:
I’m not going to have a soul that wants that forgiveness anymore.
Msgr. Eugene Morris:
That is exactly correct. And then we are afraid at times to talk about the reality of hell, but hell is simply God’s recognizing the manner in which we chose to live with him in this life in the next life. In this life, I chose not to live with him. He is going to honor that choice as much as that’s not what he wants for us, but if that’s how we choose to live, then that’s the direction this is going to go, and I don’t say that to frighten people, but that’s a real thing for I want to live with God for all eternity, and that has to start now in every aspect of my life, and it really is that simple.
Cy Kellett:
Well, because we do apologetics here, Monsignor, I have to say a lot of people find themselves… We try to help people explain and defend the faith, and this is one that people actually have a lot of trouble explaining and defending, because it’s often in the context of very close intimate relationships, parents to child, or brother to sister, or because it’s happening in the context of a wedding is happening, or somebody just comes to mass with you, and they don’t get it, and so could you help people with how to talk with people about this? I mean, how to just not necessarily try to change people’s minds, but say the authentic thing that could at least sit with the person and maybe will have an effect at some point? What would you say about defending this aspect of the Catholic faith?
Msgr. Eugene Morris:
I would say that the first, if you wanted to map out a strategy for doing this, I think the first step is for those of us who are in a position to defend the faith need to actually know the faith. So no matter how well we know the faith, there’s always more that we can learn. A friend of mine just reminded me of this the other day. We were talking actually in the context of learning Latin, studying Latin, and he said he has a good professor who’s a Latin scholar, speaks Latin. He goes back every year, every couple of years maybe, and he does a rudimentary course. He just puts himself through another rudimentary course of the language that he knows so well, and I have found myself doing that.
I’ve got my Catechism right in front of me. I’ve gone back, and I’ve reread, and I’ve gone through the Catechism from beginning literally to end. So it’s never a question of no matter how much you know. There’s always more that you can know, new ways, new understandings that hit us. So secondly, when you’re in a situation, depending on what it is, and oftentimes, as you say, it’s a wedding, it’s an intimate friendship or relationship, realize this is going to take time. It’s not going to be one, or two, or three conversations. You’re going to have to be willing to, the language we use, maybe overboard in the Francis area is accompany somebody. There is a legitimacy to journeying with somebody to be a companion with them in this regard, remembering that when we’re walking with somebody, we’re not two blind people just walking willy-nilly. You’re the individual who knows where we’re going, so you’re leading this journey hopefully to something, so don’t think that when we walk with someone, we don’t know where we’re going.
We know exactly where we’re going, but realize it’s going to take time, and then I would say to them, again, the things about which we’ve spoken. Talk to them about integrity. Talk to them about what we believe about the Eucharist, and why it is so significant at the heart of the life of the church. Talk to them about individuals receiving holy community, what that means and the implications of that, both personally and maybe objectively, theologically, and then encourage the individual to kind of explore and look at their own lives. What does it mean for you to be a man or a woman of integrity saying one thing and actually doing another? You don’t do that in other aspects of your life. Why would you do that in this aspect?
My final kind of insight would be, and I’ve shared this with people, you also have to be preparing yourself for the possibility that this relationship may not continue. That’s the hardest one to do, to be in relationship with those that we love and realize that we may have to circumscribe this relationship in our lives. That’s a hard thing, and I don’t say that lightly. I’ve had to do that with friends and with family where we were simply… Now, again, I haven’t closed the door. I haven’t burned any bridges, but the nature of the relationship has changed because of what they believe, and how they’ve chosen to live their life, and what it is I believe, and how I’ve chosen to live my life.
That last part requires from us who are defending the faith kind of a parallel journey of our own lives in prayer, making sure we’re in constant conversation with God, and we’re ready for the sacrifices that have to come when one defends the faith. There can be no… I don’t think, and you’re better at this than I. I don’t think there can be any authentic defense of the faith that does not involve some degree of serious sacrifice in our lives.
Cy Kellett:
I could not agree more with that. I don’t know what I’m better at than you. I can’t think of anything but-
Msgr. Eugene Morris:
Apologetics. You are. Apologetics definitely, definitely. Please take my word on that.
Cy Kellett:
Monsignor, it’s just delightful to see you again. Thank you for doing this with us. I think as the church tries to reinstill what’s being called now eucharistic coherence, and come to a renewed appreciation of Christ in the Eucharist, of valuing, not a devaluing of Christ in the Eucharist. We got to just keep having these conversations because I really do believe they help. So to have them with you is a great pleasure and a privilege. Thank you, Monsignor Morris.
Msgr. Eugene Morris:
Thank you so much, Cy. God bless you.
Cy Kellett:
And I was just going to ask you for your blessing, and then you just gave it to me. Will you bless our listeners as well?
Msgr. Eugene Morris:
Certainly. May the blessing of Almighty God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit descend upon you all and remain with you forever. Amen.
Cy Kellett:
Amen. Thank you so much. Thanks everybody for listening. If you want to contact us, you can always send us an email. Focus@catholic.com is our email address, focus@catholic.com. If you want to support us financially, you can do so by going to givecatholic.com, and I will ask you again, please, wherever you listen, if you’d give us that five star review and a few nice words, it does help to grow the podcast. I’m Cy Kellett, your host. Our guest has been Monsignor Eugene Morris, and we’ll see you next time, God willing, right here on Catholic Answers Focus.