The Perfection of the Nativity

The coming of the Lord as a babe in Bethlehem is perfectly arranged by the Lord. Drawing on Thomas Aquinas, Father Hugh Barbour explains some of the ways God arranged for his son to be born in just the right way, place, and time.

Cy Kellett:
Every single detail of the nativity is perfect. Father Hugh Barbour is next.

Hello and welcome to Catholic Answers Focus, the podcast for living, understanding, and defending your Catholic faith. I’m Cy Kellett your host. And man, if you want to have a good time with Father Hugh Barbour, get him talking about the baby Jesus. He loves the baby Jesus. And one of the things that he’s here to talk with us about in this episode, is about how the birth of most of us is, it’s just a birth. It’s all kinds of chance and happenstance and this and that happening, that the biography of almost everyone is full of all kinds of chance. The biography of Jesus is different. This is the birth of the Lord, and it has been arranged by the Lord, so that every detail of it, every aspect of it, is there to bring us closer to him. To identify him, to know who he is, and to bring us closer to him. So here’s what Father Hugh had to say about the perfection of the nativity of the little baby Jesus. Father, thank you again for being with us.

Hugh Barbour:
Happy to be here.

Cy Kellett:
In our end of year, Catholic Answers poll, I just want you to know, we ask people what would they like more of? And one person said more Cy and Father Hugh together. That’s brilliant. And I was like, “Well, I got to tell Father about that one person.”

Hugh Barbour:
Only one?

Cy Kellett:
Well, they could say anything that they want-

Hugh Barbour:
I know, I’m just joking.

Cy Kellett:
Only one. They put, maybe they want more Father Hugh, but you and me together, we’re brilliant.

Hugh Barbour:
No, no, we are a great team.

Cy Kellett:
That’s what this person said, we’re brilliant.

Hugh Barbour:
That’s right. Neither one of us is a bore, especially when we’re both together.

Cy Kellett:
No. Let’s list some of the people who are a bore here at Catholic Answers.

Hugh Barbour:
No, I don’t think there’s anybody.

Cy Kellett:
Okay, here we go. Here’s what I got for you today, little baby Jesus. And it’s not a Ricky Bobby question, but it is about little baby Jesus. Born in a manger in Bethlehem in the reign of Caesar Augustus and all that. And I want some answers, why? Why did God do it this way? All right?

Hugh Barbour:
Okay.

Cy Kellett:
But first the place to start with, why become one of us at all? Why become incarnate as a man?

Hugh Barbour:
Why would God become incarnate as a man? This is a very important question. And the why, is related to why in some sense, it was most appropriate or necessary. That is, not just as a miracle to show God’s power, and certainly not because he was constrained to do it, but that there is, what St. Thomas calls in theology, a great convenience that is an appropriateness for it. Why would this way of God’s coming to us be more appropriate than any other way. That’s what he sets out to show.

Cy Kellett:
Yeah, okay.

Hugh Barbour:
And he starts with the objections, basically they amount to, God is infinitely beyond human nature and beyond material nature, bodily nature. And it is not appropriate for his dignity to relate to us in that way. He made us, yes, but for him to become one of us in such a lowly state, is not appropriate. Especially because we are involved in sin and God should not mix himself up with that. These are the objections, and so on. Other such objections. Now, a lot of these come from ancient philosophy where there was an identification in certain parts of the Neoplatonic world of matter with evil, material things.

Cy Kellett:
Right, okay.

Hugh Barbour:
Participating in evil, that was also the dualistic Manichaean view. And that’s one of the problems that they had. And also just that the infinite perfection of God shouldn’t be sullied by such a condescension. And you get that, of course, even with some of the Jews, all right. Some of them only, because it’s not right, don’t believe it when people say, “Well, it would be completely beyond the imagination of the Jews to imagine that the God of Israel to take human form.” You go, “No, that’s not true.” It might be beyond the imagination of certain modern Orthodox Jews. But if you read the literature of Judaism that comes out of Alexandria, right before our Lord’s coming, this constant reference to God’s appearing on earth and his wisdom living and dwelling among us, it was very much in the imaginations of the people. Otherwise, how could they have accepted it? It was not entirely an outrage. And when our Lord was attacked for claiming to be the son of God, it was because he claimed he was the son of God, not that-

Cy Kellett:
Not that it was possible.

Hugh Barbour:
Right. Right.

Cy Kellett:
Yeah. Yeah.

Hugh Barbour:
So let’s keep that in mind-

Cy Kellett:
Okay, fair enough.

Hugh Barbour:
… That our religion has a particular rationale behind it. Now, why would God become man? It’s very simple. Why do human beings do something as human beings in a properly human way? Because they have use of reason and they have freedom that is the act in accordance with their rational nature. That’s when they’re acting as truly human.

Cy Kellett:
Right, okay.

Hugh Barbour:
Okay, if they’re acting and it’s defective, that’s another question. But when a thing acts according to its nature, then of course, that’s the thing it does the best. So the question is, if you’re going to answer why God would take to himself a human nature, being infinite, almighty, all wise, all powerful, and simple and immaterial, you have to answer, well we need to know what God’s nature is in order to answer that question. Now, St. John says, “No one has ever seen God.” So what do we mean by that? We mean that in the scriptures it’s revealed that God is first of all, and most clearly, goodness. Diffusive goodness. God is the one who makes the world freely and lovingly and declares it good.

And now, goodness has a particular nature. Anything or anyone that’s good, they’re called good because that which they possess, the perfection they possess, they’re bestowing, they’re pouring out on others. And so, it’s the nature of goodness to diffuse itself, to pour itself out. And so, it’s supremely God’s nature to diffuse goodness. But not just goodness, but to defuse himself, who’s a supreme goodness. So if God can find a way to give himself to his spiritual creatures, his rational creatures, he will do it. And that’s the reasoning. Of course, it’s revealed to us, but he will find a way, not just to bestow the goodness of creation, the goodness of our nature, the goodness of, even of grace or [inaudible 00:06:37], but actually he will bestow himself, in person, to our nature. So, it was remade for union with him.

So consequently, the reason why, and this is St Thomas’s reason, it’s very simple and it doesn’t sound like high theology. Why was it necessary for God to become incarnate? Because he’s good. Because he’s good. If you understand what goodness is, you’ll understand that that’s the best reason to explain why God became incarnate or should’ve become incarnate. And that’s a very, very simple answer, but it shows that the deepest, most difficult mystery of the faith, practically for us, the Trinity is more difficult in itself. But for us, the incarnation of the son of God and his passion is suffering, especially that the closest reason, the most refined reason, the proximate reason for this is to say, God is good and we will answer all the time.

Cy Kellett:
All the time, right.

Hugh Barbour:
So what seems like a simple statement that would not really tell you, you’d say, “Well, why did God become a man? Because he’s good? Oh, well, give me some other reason… Yeah, I know he’s good. But what is it?” That is the reason.

Cy Kellett:
If I may, it’s a little discursive, but does this suggest that… Because we always get the hypothetical question, what if Adam and Eve had not fallen, would Christ still have become incarnate? Does this address that by…

Hugh Barbour:
Well, it would be the same in either case, except that the falling into sin would make it also work of a particular type of goodness, which is mercy. The love, which is shown by mercy.

Cy Kellett:
Okay.

Hugh Barbour:
But St. Thomas answers that question by saying that because he’s very careful, since it’s a supernatural mystery, he doesn’t make purely speculative things. Since that’s not what actually happened. And since what’s revealed to us is that God is incarnate for our salvation to redeem the human race. Then St. Thomas says, it would seem that it’s one should say no, that if we had not sin, God would not have been incarnate.

Cy Kellett:
Okay.

Hugh Barbour:
And that goes along with the liturgy of the church at Easter. No happy fall, the necessarily sin that merits a greater redeemer. Although the opinion that he would have anyway, is certainly one that exists in theology, especially among this Scotus school.

Cy Kellett:
Okay.

Hugh Barbour:
Not in Duns Scotus himself, but in his school. And it also is more germane to some of the eastern traditions. And of course, in some of the Pauline texts as well. But the fact is, the fact that God becomes a man or rather that he assumes human nature to himself, that is a work of pure divine goodness. It’s the nature of the good that it communicate itself to others. And God does this perfectly. Now, then in so doing, he does so in order to take away our sins, to redeem us.

And St. Thomas uses the most beautiful expression to explain or describe what the sin is that God has come to save us from. And he says that, “Since men had drawn away from the art of divine wisdom by sinning, he had to come and repair what was broken.” But he calls it the art of divine wisdom and that sin is pulling away from the art of divine wisdom. Now wisdom is the knowledge that flows from love, from the possession of the good, so it goes along with that theme of divine goodness, that he came in order to restore his wise order in disordered human hearts. And he does that as a supreme artist of creation. It’s a beautiful, beautiful thought that he gives us.

Cy Kellett:
Okay. So this gives us the, why become incarnate, but then there are the particulars of his incarnation. And can we get answers to those? Or do we have to just say that it’s a mystery? Why-

Hugh Barbour:
Historical…

Cy Kellett:
Why did he come then? Why there?

Hugh Barbour:
It was Midrash, nice story that first century Jews made up to make it picturesque. That’s the kind of thing you can read.

Cy Kellett:
Okay.

Hugh Barbour:
Pope Benedict the 16th, wrote that little third volume of his trilogy on our Lord, precisely to take modern exegesis, which tends to poo-poo the infancy narratives. And he takes them and uses them to assert and to reconfirm the truth of the narrations of our Lord’s infancy in the gospels, is brilliant. How he does that, it’s like intellectual slight of hand, suddenly the very sources that seem to be opposed to the historicity of these events he takes and shows, voila, here it all is. It’s very good. But yes, we can give reasons for all of those things, because when in so great a matter as God’s becoming one of us and revelation’s so great a mystery, nothing is without significance. Every detail would have an importance.

Cy Kellett:
Okay.

Hugh Barbour:
And that’s the attitude of the early fathers and all the different traditions of scripture interpretation. There’s nothing in there, that’s put in the words of scripture, that doesn’t have some kind of significant meaning. And when we can’t find one, it’s not because it’s not there, but it’s because God wants us to keep looking.

Cy Kellett:
Okay.

Hugh Barbour:
Because the scriptures are meant to be mined that way. So what can we take from the particular details of our Lord’s worth? Which would you like to know about?

Cy Kellett:
Bethlehem. Why Bethlehem?

Hugh Barbour:
Bethlehem. Why Bethlehem? Well, first of all, our Lord is the fulfillment of prophecy that the Messiah would be in the line of David, while Bethlehem is the town of the birth of David. So that’s, first of all, the point. Because he’s from the line of David and it says that there right there in scripture, Joseph took Mary and it was awaiting to have her child, born of her. And they went to his place where his family was from, namely Bethlehem. Because he was of the house and the family of David. First of all, that’s the first historical reason. But then there’s another reason that’s more of a question of an image, but not much of it’s actually a concrete reality. The name Bethlehem in Hebrew, Bethlehem, means the house, beth is house and lehem is bread. So it’s the house of bread. And of course, there is born the one who said, “I am the true bread, come down from heaven.” And so, that’s another reason that fits, because he reveals himself the bread of life. And… Yes?

Cy Kellett:
So Bethlehem, a thousand years before Jesus, is the birthplace of David. So why now? Let’s say he’s born in three or two or four BC, during the reign of Caesar Augustus. Right at the beginning of the Pax Romana and all that. Why then? Why that moment?

Hugh Barbour:
Well, he was born, of course, to fulfill the prophecy that was made regarding the savior would come from the line of David. And so he’s born in Bethlehem, the birthplace of David, but then he has his ministry and finally, suffers and is glorified, exercise his priesthood and his kingship in Jerusalem. Just like David exercises his kingship and priesthood in Jerusalem. And that of course, has a certain relation to the fact that at the time when our Lord was born, two things, one positive, one negative, were true about the nation of God’s chosen people.
Namely, that they were under servitude to the Romans and at the same time, that he was also going to restore them to their dignity, but through a new function, a new priestly and kingly function as our savior. Through his cross and passion and his glorification in the royal city. The royal city of Jerusalem. And so, both of those things give us an insight into why this particular moment of history would have been the reason.

But very particularly, and importantly, is that during the reign of Caesar Augustus at that time, the world was at peace. There were no wars going on at all. There was free travel. There was no discord or disharmony. That’s why he chose to have the census then. And of course, the coming of the savior during the time of the Roman Empire, it’s greatest, almost greatest extent, and it’s time of peace, is also a providential arrangement for the proclamation of Christ to the world. Because the system of the Roman Empire allowed for the faith to be promoted in a way, which you could never have been promoted before.

Cy Kellett:
No.

Hugh Barbour:
There was an empire that reached all the way from the Atlantic Coast of Portugal, to the Indus River, and as far north as England, and as far south as the Sedan. That was the world at the time. And it was able to spread everywhere there, and that was on account of our Lord being born, when the government and the social order and communications, transportation, economy, everything was in place to allow that to happen. And it’s a very, very important aspect of the time. But also, just if you want to talk about just the day of the month, or the time of the month, he’s born around the winter solstice.

Cy Kellett:
Yeah, right.

Hugh Barbour:
Which someone might say, “We should be born when the days are bright and light.” And whatnot. But no, he was born when the days begin finally, gradually, to grow longer. You have the shortest day of the year, the 21st of December and then after that, every day is a little bit longer until it reaches its apex at the summer solstice. So, it’s a time of the increasing light, as the light increases. So, he’s born at that particular time.

Cy Kellett:
But there’s also the aspect of the light is increasing, but it is the dark moment of the year.

Hugh Barbour:
Right, exactly.

Cy Kellett:
And the people in darkness have seen a great light.

Hugh Barbour:
Great light. Exactly. So the two things come together very well. The days are short, yes, but they are gradually lengthening. So, we’re told of the salvation coming.

Cy Kellett:
Okay.

Hugh Barbour:
And then St. Thomas adds another one, which will be very dear to someone like St. Alphonsus or St. Francis. He says, “Well also, he’s born in the cold of winter to be able to begin to suffer for us immediately.”

Cy Kellett:
Wow.

Hugh Barbour:
So, it’s kind of sweet. He adds that as the last one, and did some hymns that refer to that. So, not that Our Lady didn’t wrap him up warmly enough, but cold is cold.

Cy Kellett:
Cold is cold.

Hugh Barbour:
Who knows what it felt it or something.

Cy Kellett:
Yeah. All right so, what about his name Jesus? There’s a tremendous devotion to the name of Jesus.

Hugh Barbour:
Right, appropriately.

Cy Kellett:
And so, this is not an arbitrary thing, that he’s named Jesus. By any… This is a divinely ordained thing.

Hugh Barbour:
Right, because the name was given to him through the angel as the name that the father wanted him to have, just like St. John’s name, the baptist name was given to him also. And in the other tradition, Our Lady’s name was given to her, that in the traditional of the [inaudible 00:18:07]. But in any case, yes, you could object, well, there are so many names given to the Messiah in the Old Testament.

Cy Kellett:
Emmanuel.

Hugh Barbour:
Emmanuel, angel of great counsel. All the names that are given, wonderful, counselor, the mighty God, the everlasting father, prince of peace. We can hear the music. Right. All of those things, they’re all these names given him, which would have Hebrew equivalents, that could be given, his names, but he was given the name Jesus, which again, is a name that other people in his genealogy had. But in any case, he was given this name because the name Jesus means precisely savior. All the other names given in the scriptures, and this goes back to your question about whether it’d be incarnate, unless we’d sin. They refer to aspects of his operation or his perfections, but not the principle point of his existence as a man, it is to come to save us. As we say, in the creed, who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven. And in that light, we see all his other names.

Cy Kellett:
Right.

Hugh Barbour:
That’s why, if you pray the litany, the Holy name, which is a very good litany to pray during the Christmas time, you’ll see the name of Jesus associated with all the other beautiful names that are given to him, taken from the scriptures and tradition, and you can invoke him by all those. It’s very beautiful litany. You can find it online, you can find it in the handbook of prayers. It’s very well-known little prayer book, most traditional prayer books have it, the litany of the Holy name. If that would teach you…

Cy Kellett:
If I remember at Luke’s gospel, Luke almost suggests that by having the name Jesus, that fulfills the prophecy, that he’ll be called Emmanuel.

Hugh Barbour:
No, for he shall save his people from their sins.

Cy Kellett:
Oh, yeah. Okay.

Hugh Barbour:
So, he’ll be called Jesus because he will save his people from their sins. And that makes it very, very clear, as the motivation, at that solemn moment, that’s the reason he gives. And the name Jesus is actually the name Joshua, Yeshua in Hebrew. So, it’s the name of Joshua. So Joshua in the Old Testament, who brought people over, finally at the Jordan. And fought the enemies of God and God’s people and succeeded. And so, he’s a prefiguration of the power of the name of Jesus and saving the people, bringing them into the promised land and all of that.

But the name Jesus, in English, is based upon the Greek version of the name Joshua, which is Lesous. And that’s the one we use. Because it comes from the Septuagint Bible, the Greek Old Testament. And we use that regularly. It’s also because it was used among the Jews in our Lord’s own time, that particular Greek version of the name. And after all, he was to be preached in the whole Roman Empire, it be good for him to have a name that was in the lingua franca of the Roman Empire, which was not Latin, but Greek at the time. So he has this Hebrew Greek name, very appropriately. He didn’t take Joseph’s name, but that’s like John, John didn’t Zachary’s name either. So it means they have a specific role that’s not exactly inherited from their fathers.

Cy Kellett:
Oh, yeah. Right. That distinguishes them from their fathers. I think we have time for one more specific thing.

Hugh Barbour:
Sure.

Cy Kellett:
The Magi.

Hugh Barbour:
The Magi. Amazing. Of course, they represent the first fruits of the salvation of the world through this, to the saving of the Gentiles. They come to adore the Messiah, the King of the Jews. That’s the key thing. But also to show that God uses his natural signs in order to indicate his designs. But very importantly, notice they’re astrologers and they’ve seen this sign and they’re following it. They know it signifies something important and they interpret that it signifies a King and they go westward looking, but they don’t get the specifics from the star. They could only figure out something generally about the sign.

It’s only when they get to Jerusalem and are not being guided by the star right at that moment, and they inquire of the priests and scribes, what this star means and where was their King to be born? And they said, “Well, he’s to be born in Bethlehem of Judea.” That’s when they knew what the actual location was. So then when they started going to Bethlehem, the star reappears and goes and lights over the house where the child was. So this is not a star that you can reproduce, it’s a miraculous star. Stars don’t move, they don’t make turns and they don’t rest over particular houses and disappear and come back. So this is a particularly prodigious star. So it’s not the fixed star, so to speak, that people try to follow in their astrology columns.

But it shows too, that God does make use of that ancient wisdom. There is some wisdom to some of these things from antiquity. And especially from the Chaldeans, who are the repositories of scientific wisdom at the time, everybody went to them. And also, for racketeer pronouncements and so on. But they consulted those who knew the profits. And so, they went to Bethlehem because they were were fulfilling the prophecy, which is found in Micah, that it should be Bethlehem, leads to the cities of Judea, from which the King would come. And that itself, along with their gifts, which indicate very clearly, that even though he’s just a little baby and he looks like any other baby, and St. Thomas makes a point that he does not appear to be any different from anyone else, any other baby. Their disposition to believe is very, very strong, their virtue and perseverance. But they give him gifts that indicate his nature.

Cy Kellett:
Okay, yeah. Right.

Hugh Barbour:
Gold for a King, incense for a God, and then myrrh for one who was going to die. Now, those are gifts which symbolically, go in against each other, gods are not supposed to die. And it’s a little indelicate to give someone an embalming material on the occasion of their birth. It’s somewhat significant-

Cy Kellett:
A little indelicate is one way to put it.

Hugh Barbour:
Somewhat significant to be given that. Here your shroud now that you’re born. And so, the gifts also signify his role as King and as priest and God. Incense signifies both, and also as sacrifice for our salvation in the giving of the myrrh.

Cy Kellett:
Every detail worked out by God.

Hugh Barbour:
Absolutely.

Cy Kellett:
So that we would understand him, and so that we know who he is, all these things point us and help us to receive him.

Hugh Barbour:
It takes our human nature and it has a human life with details of human life that are significant. Obviously, if God’s going to become man, every detail is going to be significant, just like ours is. I don’t know why the modern theologians, they make little of these details, but then, they’d be the same people that tell us when to go see a psychotherapist, if they needed help and narrate to him all the details of their childhood and try to find some meaning in it. Well obviously, in the son of God, the few details that are given us in the scriptures, they obviously are significant.

Cy Kellett:
Right.

Hugh Barbour:
So we need to take a look at-

Cy Kellett:
They’re just full of meaning.

Hugh Barbour:
And he becomes man, so that we have great confidence in him, because he’s the truth, and that it increases our faith. Because confidence in his goodness that he would become one of us for our salvation, so our hope is stirred up. And then of course, one that loves us so much that he wants to be one of us and live with us individually and communicate himself to us out of his sheer goodness, sinners though we are, and even because we’re sinners, stirs up our love for him. And so we’re set for Christmas.

Cy Kellett:
Thank you for getting us set, father. I appreciate that.

Hugh Barbour:
Sure. God bless.

Cy Kellett:
Oh, you know what I didn’t-

Hugh Barbour:
All 12 days.

Cy Kellett:
All 12 days.

Hugh Barbour:
Whenever this airs.

Cy Kellett:
We want that all the way through the Epiphany.

Hugh Barbour:
Epiphany, right. Because we got the Magi in there.

Cy Kellett:
You know what I forgot to do? This is the worst thing. I forgot to ask you for your blessing before we go. And we’re just the last one of this year.

Hugh Barbour:
[foreign language 00:26:30], amen.

Cy Kellett:
Amen.

We lose so much when we make that fatal mistake of thinking Jesus is just like everyone else. When we understand that he’s the Lord and that his coming is the coming of the Lord, we can look at the stories of his nativity, we can look at his genealogy, that every detail of it arranged for our benefit. Knowing that he’s God, we know that he has been given to us in a very special way and the details of the nativity matter. It’s wonderful that St. Thomas Aquinas meditated on it so much, because if St. Thomas Aquinas thought about it, then Father Hugh Barbour will come and tell you about it, because he loves Thomas Aquinas. And both of them, I should say all of us, I hope you too love the baby Jesus, and it’s great to reflect on him.

Thanks for joining us. I hope you’re having a very Merry Christmas season. You can always email us, our email focus@catholic.com. We’d love to hear from you. You can even give us ideas for upcoming episodes. If there’s something you’d like to hear us talk about with Father Hugh or anyone else, focus@catholic.com. Don’t forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcast, Apple, Spotify, Stitcher. If you subscribe, you’ll be notified when new episodes are available. And especially those of you who watch on YouTube. If you would like and subscribe on YouTube, it goes a long way to helping us to grow this podcast. Also, if this podcast means something to you and you’d like to support it, especially here as we’re coming to the end of the year, you can go to givecatholic.com and make your donation there, givecatholic.com. You can also write a little note. Maybe you want to tell us what you like or what we can work on to improve in the coming year, givecatholic.com. I’m Cy Kellett, your host, this is Catholic Answers Focus, and we’ll see you next time. God willing, right here.